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Old 01-01-2013, 08:33 AM   #1
jacky599r
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Default when are cams sensible?

Just wondering at which stage of your modifications did having upgraded cams makes sense? Im wondering if I should put in 272 cosworth for my build...

J
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:48 AM   #2
slowgenius
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Mine made sense to do at the same time i had a new short block built. i got all my head work done at one time. I had larger valves installed, new springs, porting and blending, kelford 272's for my 550-600 hp goal.

I got a deal on some dual avcs heads to put on a built block and went from there. Any 60+ lb/min turbo should work well to reach my goal.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:49 PM   #3
Irv Weissmanhowerton
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alot of people will tell you bang for buck isn't really worth it and to just upsize in turbo is a better choice, but if you have a 35r or bigger Id say yes for top end. Or just if you can afford them, dont go cheap cams, it pushes the powerband to the right, meaning, laggier but will hold power higher then it did before, BUT.. unless you do everything to work together, your not going to get the most of it (+1 valves for velocity/springs retainers, port work, intake manifold and larger header)

I am just about to try some kelford 199-c's on my 30r setup, but I dont want to mess with opening the motor anymore and I plan to up to a 35r down the line
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:08 PM   #4
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I agree with irv, everything should be planned out so that it works together. The wrong size cams can really affect driveability. It honestly is different for each and every setup, and drivers preferences.

Try to match your power goals, turbo cams, exhaust and budget.

Sometimes people opt to do things in stages, and they change their mind in bewteen, and that can cost alot in rework, tuning etc. Try to maximize everything you can with the budget you have and stick to it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:48 PM   #5
Dave D.
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Dom at MPS installed some 199-B's on my exhaust side which helped my HTA68. He said the exhaust AVCS made it worthwhile. I'm running far from a 35r.

Your car is the same model year as mine -- you might look into going bigger on your exhaust side, at least, depending on your build.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:19 PM   #6
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I have been curious about this as well, I want to do cams next year but wanted to know when a good time would be.

I have a built short block already, but don't want throw something on the car that is not needed or cause problems. Ill be running a 20g for a little bit but will upgrade to a gtx3076r in a year or so. Still worth doing?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:41 PM   #7
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I have had a built 2 liter for a while now running a 20g, I recently installed 280 cams so I could up my rev another thousand rpm to help accommodate a Blouch Dom 3. I think if you're wanting to run any kind of high boost or big turbo, it never hurts to get you a set so you could expand the revving abilities of your engine as well as stay in your boost longer before having to shift..

But i'm also a torque-less EJ20. I can't speak for the 2.5 liters

Besides that, they sound cool as hell :P

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #8
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^ Luv it!.. except the exhaust note.. needs more rumble to it
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:19 PM   #9
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Agreed.. it's so much deeper cruising it than it is idling.. sometimes i miss my cobb catback.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:03 AM   #10
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wow that thing sounds meaty can't wait to see how mine turn out
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #11
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I decided to go with Kelford 199-E cams for my build. I'm leaning toward running a 3071R turbo. The 199Es have a 274 intake and 270 exhaust. They are going into a fully built block along with a Manley valvetrain targeting an 8K RPM redline.

My tuner is of the opinion that some smaller cams aren't really worth the upgrade cost/hassle. The smallest he would even suggest was a 272. He knows that a cam can be better designed for lower RPM, but you need consider the cost of this major upgrade.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #12
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Ah. My heads are being machined now. CnC, port polish the intake and exhaust and combustion chambers. Well, I did not go with enlarge valves but I could get a set of 272 cosworth with springs relatively cheap. Since the engine is out I'm thinking if I should even consider them. This is my daily driver and I'm going with a kinugawa td06sl2 20g and meth down the line. I wanna make sure its reliable and doesn't shift the power to the right too much...
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PostaL cm View Post
I have had a built 2 liter for a while now running a 20g, I recently installed 280 cams so I could up my rev another thousand rpm to help accommodate a Blouch Dom 3. I think if you're wanting to run any kind of high boost or big turbo, it never hurts to get you a set so you could expand the revving abilities of your engine as well as stay in your boost longer before having to shift..

But i'm also a torque-less EJ20. I can't speak for the 2.5 liters

Besides that, they sound cool as hell :P

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd3CntX0N30
What kinda power was that making. Sounds bad ass.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:29 AM   #14
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I installed my kelford 199-e cams when I built my 2.1 stroker. I did all the port work and installed the springs and retainers. I presently run a 20g on meth at 325 whp up to 7.5k but I installed the cams for later, after I install the 6spd. I don't think the cams are really needed at this power level but I am ready for the larger turbo when my powertrain can take it.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:47 AM   #15
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Nice. I'm just afraid the cams would make the daily drive unbearable. Anyhow, I do have a 6 speeder installed!!!
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacky599r View Post
Nice. I'm just afraid the cams would make the daily drive unbearable. Anyhow, I do have a 6 speeder installed!!!

With a good tune you hardly know the cams are there. My car even drove great when I only had a vf48 with the cams.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mod maniac View Post

With a good tune you hardly know the cams are there. My car even drove great when I only had a vf48 with the cams.
Just curious as I still haven't done enough research but how do some cams make driving crappy? How the power comes on?
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:58 AM   #18
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Choose cams that go with your power band. This usually goes hand in hand with your turbo. Makes no sense to go 272 with a 30R on a 2.5L. It however will make sense on a 2L where the power band comes on a little later.

Crappy driving? As in trying to get the car moving at lower rpms and the car doesn't move as much as you wanted via throttle input. I've driven an EVO; built 2L with big cams and 9000rpms of revs and yes anything under 3000rpms there nearly was a change in exhaust note when i gave more throttle. Drive it according to your power band and don't complain because you choose to go with that setup.

If it is a problem i recommend putting a TD04L and stock WRX TMIC on. If that is something you don't want to do then sell your car and get something else.

Last edited by FuJi K; 01-03-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:57 AM   #19
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Fuji K, could you elaborate more on 272s being crappy on 2.5L? Because that is exactly what I'm keen on. I don't wanna shift the power band too much right. Since its a daily car, I wanna make the mid range more punchy and thought it would help with the occasional track days.

J
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #20
FuJi K
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What turbo are you going with?

On a 2.5L, stock cams are just fine for up to a small 30R. This reason is because the power band from a 2.5L is still mid range where the stock cam still work great. You go with a 3076R and to 35R size on the 2.5L and the power band does start to move a little more to the right. The setup will benefit from cams around the 264 range here. If large 35R size to 37R size, 272 will help more up top since the turbo is making peak power higher and that is where the meat of the power band is.

It is fine to have an under cam'd setup and let the turbo give you your top end.

Our project STi runs my DD ported heads with GSC S2 272 on a 6766 turbo and we rev that to 9000rpms. The engine displacement is plenty to put around town. I don't drive around town romping on the throttle so it drives just fine to me. However when i need to get going like WOT the power band is 5000+rpms. Anything before that you have to wait because the engine isn't flowing enough air. Buy like said, if you just drive normally around town, the 2.5L engine is plenty. Where are you rushing to?

So what turbo are you going with?

Last edited by FuJi K; 01-03-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #21
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I'm aiming for a Dom 2.5 XTR Twinscroll or Kinugawa TD06SL2 20G. Here, i am trying to strike a good balance between broad power band till red line and low rev response. My engine is being build as we speak and ive got my heads machined, CNC and port and polish while it is out. I've got a JDM 6 speed too and meth is in the pipe line too...
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:07 PM   #22
FuJi K
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If you go with that DOM, 264. If the 20G, stock cams, IMO.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #23
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got it!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:50 PM   #24
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If you were running the 20g on e85 the cams would also be a good thing.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #25
Irv Weissmanhowerton
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264 cams for the money your going to be investing doing everything along with labor/ machine work, to me.. just doesnt seem worth what you are going to get out of it, it is a little dis-appointing to hear my kelford 199-c wont work too well on my 30r .82, but I was hoping to rev a little higher and be a perfect cam for the next size up turbo
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