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Old 01-27-2013, 04:19 AM   #1
Tenormdnes
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Default Stage 1 data log possible problem!

Attached are two logs, one from a few months ago that looks OK, from what I was told (HWG Stage 1 93oct, logged in August, in Texas). I noticed over the past several days the car seemed a big sluggish during part throttle, but didn't have a chance to go WOT until today. It really felt like a dog, so I logged it (40 degrees outside vs 100 like the first log)

DAM is zero, and timing looks horrible. ?!

I have a catted DP in the garage and wanted to get a custom tune after I installed it, but now I want to make sure there isn't something mechanically wrong! Can somebody please let me know if you think I should change from HWG back to normal? Or if there is some other issue I should explore.

2012 WRX- 7500 miles, Stage 1 93Oct from Cobb (no other mods)

(Side note: I had a K&N drop in for the first few hundred miles but the mpg was horrible, so I've been with the stock paper filter since...never cleaned the MAF sensor, but that was 6 months ago and the car has been fine until recently)

Thanks for the help!

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B95g...IySW5UQ00/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B95g...hsOWJqYWM/edit
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #2
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by Tenormdnes View Post
Attached are two logs, one from a few months ago that looks OK, from what I was told (HWG Stage 1 93oct, logged in August, in Texas). I noticed over the past several days the car seemed a big sluggish during part throttle, but didn't have a chance to go WOT until today. It really felt like a dog, so I logged it (40 degrees outside vs 100 like the first log)

DAM is zero, and timing looks horrible. ?!

I have a catted DP in the garage and wanted to get a custom tune after I installed it, but now I want to make sure there isn't something mechanically wrong! Can somebody please let me know if you think I should change from HWG back to normal? Or if there is some other issue I should explore.

2012 WRX- 7500 miles, Stage 1 93Oct from Cobb (no other mods)

(Side note: I had a K&N drop in for the first few hundred miles but the mpg was horrible, so I've been with the stock paper filter since...never cleaned the MAF sensor, but that was 6 months ago and the car has been fine until recently)

Thanks for the help!

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B95g...IySW5UQ00/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B95g...hsOWJqYWM/edit
Sorry for troubles. The DAM dropping to zero indicates a very serious problem. It means that the engine control unit (ECU) has detected an excessive amount of knock (or it is picking up other noise that the knock sensor is falsely determining as knock).

First step is to look at your long-term fuel trims. Connect the Accessport to the car and read each of the 4 A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D values via live data. You can do this with the ignition ON, engine OFF, or with engine idling. Report back each of those values and we'll go from there. For now, do not do any more wide open throttle (WOT) or heavy throttle pulls and do not reflash any maps and do not reset the ECU. Drive conservatively if you need to drive the car.

Bill
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:12 PM   #3
Tenormdnes
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AF Learning 1
A: .6 .6/.6
B: -.8 -.8/-.8
C: -1.5 -1.5/-1.5
D: -.2 -.2/-.2


So what the heck does this mean? I was at idle when I pulled these numbers. This car is new!! Thanks for the help Bill!
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:26 PM   #4
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by Tenormdnes View Post
AF Learning 1
A: .6 .6/.6
B: -.8 -.8/-.8
C: -1.5 -1.5/-1.5
D: -.2 -.2/-.2


So what the heck does this mean? I was at idle when I pulled these numbers. This car is new!! Thanks for the help Bill!
Your A/F Learning 1 numbers are fine.

The DAM dropping to zero is a serious problem. There could be many different causes. For example:

1. Low octane gas (such as 87 octane) was put into the car. This could be deliberate (say someone else driving your car and doesn't know) or the gas station mixed up different octane gas in the pumps. The latter isn't very likely, but I would go ahead and fill up at a different station with premium gas.

2. Something rattling in the engine bay (such as a loose heatshield or other component that is attached to motor or tranny) that the knock sensor is picking up and erroneously determining that knock has occurred. You might not be able to hear it from inside the car when driving. If you know of anything that has been touched/repaired/replaced double check those items to make sure nothing is potentially loose. If you hear a rattling or other unusual noise, try to isolate what that is.

3. Severe knock caused by a severe mechanical issue. This could be anything that would induce severe knock such as fueling problems.

4. Damaged ringland - unfortunately, some Subaru motors develop this problem, whether they are bone stock with factory tune or modified. This results in the a lot of noise in the offending cylinder which the knock sensor determines as excessive knocking.

At this point, I would fill up with the different gas and then keep your eye on the DAM and see if it starts to go up. Drive conservatively. Also, add the 4 Knock Sum parameters to your log list (via "Monitors" -> "Set Data Log List") and get a long log of just general driving. Don't be concerned about the knock sum values themselves - they are meaningless, but we want to see when they increment and if it is isolated to a particular cylinder. Post the log up at cobbforums.com (select "Go Advanced" and "Manage Attachments" to attach the log). Goggle docs does not work well for large logs.

Bill
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:59 PM   #5
Tenormdnes
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OK. Gas should be fine (93 from shell). I'll log those new points as you said. I'm near Plano, should I bring it to Cobb/Plano, or take it to Huffines. They do the oils changes, and partner with you (so they said). Will they be able to detect possible mechanical or ringland issues? Can I change the map back to stock and still log?

Also- the TB/IC hose has popped of a few times. Could this have caused the ECU to make these changes even though it is on tight now?
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:23 PM   #6
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yes... always reset the ecu when you have something like that happen.
I dont know how long you drove around with the IC hose off, but that would wack everything out since you are bypassing the map.

either reset it with the ap or disconnect the battery for a min or 2
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:04 AM   #7
Tenormdnes
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It partially blew off but I took it to the dealership the next day. (Twice). I'll reset everything. Anything in particular I should watch live while I'm driving?
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #8
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by Tenormdnes View Post
OK. Gas should be fine (93 from shell). I'll log those new points as you said. I'm near Plano, should I bring it to Cobb/Plano, or take it to Huffines. They do the oils changes, and partner with you (so they said). Will they be able to detect possible mechanical or ringland issues? Can I change the map back to stock and still log?

Also- the TB/IC hose has popped of a few times. Could this have caused the ECU to make these changes even though it is on tight now?
If the TB/IC hose has popped off at some point, that could cause severe problems and possibly the very low DAM. But, if you've without a doubt fixed that (and you've rechecked it now) and for sure reset the ECU, then that wouldn't explain what you are seeing now.

The issue with a dealership is that they usually will have no clue about data logging parameters such as the DAM. As far as they are concerned, if there's no check engine light, there's no problem unless there's also a noticeable driveability symptom. If you do take it to the dealership, you would want to mention the poor performance. Keep in mind that they may try to blame this on the Accessport without any valid reason to do so. So, it would probably be a good idea to run the Uninstall menu option (with Accessport connected to car) to uninstall it before taking the car in so that is not a factor that is clouding their judgement. When you uninstall the Accessport, it also resets the ECU, so you may have to do some driving before the DAM drops (it gets reset to a higher value on reset) so that the performance hit is more noticeable.

As far as our Cobb location, I believe they do offer certain diagnosis and service items, but you want to give them a call first to see to check availability and pricing. The test to rule out a damaged ringland (or other internal engine damage) would be a compression and leak-down test.

I would just get the data log that I talked about earlier (with knock sums added). Normal driving - no WOT runs. Put it up at cobbtuning.com and we'll see if there's anything further we can determine.

Bill
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:22 PM   #9
Tenormdnes
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Thanks, Bill. New logs are posted on the cobb tuning site under my first post to you.
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