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Old 11-02-2013, 03:06 PM   #1
fastblueufo
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Member#: 212154
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ed@fastperformancetuning.com
Vehicle:
02 bugeye, manley
ej257, pt5857, MBP on E85

Default 2001 Outback Supercharged H6 VDC tranny

Event: E-tune
Location: Somewhere in Texas
Elevation: 500
Car: 2001 Outback H6 VDC
Tuner: Ed from Fast Performance Tuning
Dyno Info: Dynojet awd
Transmission: Auto VDC
Peak HP at RPM: 291
Peak Torque at RPM: 250.53
Target Boost: 9psi
Target AFR: 12.7
Fuel: E85
Engine/Power Modifications: 2001 VDC AWD Super Charged 3.0. Raptor VLLC Water Cooled Ultralight supercharger.
DW650cc mated with WRX MAP Sensor.
Custom Steel Air Tube w/GReddy TypeS.
Type 13 WTA intercooler with 10x13 radiator w/7" fan.
Aeromotive FPR & DW300 pushing E85.
Innovate Motorsport WB, EGT, VAC/Boost Gauges.

I was contacted by the owner about tuning back in May. It had the supercharger, intercooler and 440cc injectors at the time. It was previously tuned by another tuner but the tune was very much still incomplete. The ECU isnt supported by any tuning software. Ed at XRT had done a great job but there were still a few issue mechanical wise that needed fixed.

I decided to see what could be done. I enlisted the help of a couple of the guys at Romraider (thanks Jason and Oren) to help get some defs together and some knowledge on the basic workings of the stock ECU.

There were a few issues that had to be fixed in order to tune this thing correctly. The owner had a set of 650cc injectors he wanted to use and I also had him install a wrx map sensor as the stock sensor voltage was maxing out at 5 psi.

Once we started tuning we had issues with the ssm scaling for the map sensor and a few other issues along the way. After 5 months of tuning and working out issues, I had what I thought was a great e-tune. Im not big on e-tuning but I couldnt turn down a challenge of tuning the first early H6 outback with a supercharger on the stock ECU.

Once I was done e-tuning, I instructed the owner to get the timing curve tuned on a dyno which he did. I was tuning on E85 and the knock control on this thing is very crude. I wasnt about to push this tune to far e-tuning it and i knew when i had reached my limit being an e-tune. My e-tune netted 265hp and after the timing was done on the rollers it netted 26 more hp at the wheels.

Here are the two graphs. The first is the e-tune and the second was with the revised timing curve done on the rollers. Thanks to Jon at Stout Perf. For squeezing out the extra pony's on the dyno and Ed at XRT as he was the first tuner to take on this project when it was in its infancy. . Enjoy!

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Last edited by fastblueufo; 11-04-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:21 PM   #2
fastblueufo
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Member#: 212154
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ed@fastperformancetuning.com
Vehicle:
02 bugeye, manley
ej257, pt5857, MBP on E85

Default

Not to leave out the virtual dyno graph.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:40 PM   #3
96SubyImpreza
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Albany, NY
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
"Big Red"

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Nice! Love seeing unique builds. I have always considered the H6 to be a world of opportunity in the right hands. How does it feel on the street?
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:05 AM   #4
west_minist
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Caribbean
Vehicle:
2000 JDM Impreza SRX
w/ AVCS Silver

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Ed,

Just for additional info:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...er-vdc-42.html

I created the first definition after take a few days to weeks to get key important maps. What was illusive was the VE and MAP sensor settings. It was frustrating not being able to control the fuel.

The ve map wasn't discovered as the def wasn't available at the time. Something like the ve was determine, but didn't seem realistic when viewed.

Also the MAP couldn't be change since no greater support to locate it in the rom by myself and Nikos (xswrex)

Usually in maf based roms, you have multiplier and offset.

CarDoc was advice on a proper ems, but the auto tranny was holding him back. I got him to chat with Phil from Element Tuning but again due to the Auto, the stock ECU was still the best alternative.

Its great you made some head way and once he is happy where he is now, that's great. Its still not prefect, but what the hect. The ball is in his court.

Great work along with all supporting people.

Last edited by west_minist; 11-03-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:53 AM   #5
cardocm
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Member#: 359856
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Austin
Vehicle:
2001 Outback VDC
White

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Somewhere in Texas is Austin. If anyone in the area wants a close up, it will be at Abee's Hi Tech M-F.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 96SubyImpreza View Post
Nice! Love seeing unique builds. I have always considered the H6 to be a world of opportunity in the right hands. How does it feel on the street?
For a complete rundown on the car: Sleeper VDC

A quick rundown is here: SUBARCHARGED

There is no failure in exploring new fields. This car has been an "experiment" of sorts that has only been able to get this far with the assistance of many people involved in the tuning. No one person got the car this close to completion. Without XRT's beginnings, it wouldn't be where it is today. XRT actually had the car at 280 WHP and 260 torque on an e-tune. Without RR developer knowledge and assistance, it may have been stalled indefinitely due to the lean out at high rpm. FPT did a great job with the addition of the WRX sensor. The 650cc were to smooth it out. They had been installed before, but were unmanageable with ROM definitions that were available at the time. Jon at Stout did a good job for coming in late. He leaned it out trying to get more HP with the timing change because the car wasn't reacting well at 11:1, timing being the factor, I believe. When timing was changed and fuel reduced, that's when it kicked hard, but knocks at 6500 correcting to -14.5, the max correction. If we had more time on the dyno, maybe he would have seen the relationship in the way the car was reacting. We had some ideas toward the end of the day concerning the plugs in the car, but I don't think going to a hotter plug will help. Higher octane mix, maybe. E85 should be sufficient to hit the 300 mark or higher.

I am also a lot closer to starting the build on my system that will be self contained to bring intake charge temperatures below ambient without water or nitrogen sprays. That's right. Once put together on the car, it will be self contained and efficient. Think running 70F intake temps with 100F+ ambient temperatures.

When this car hits 301 or higher on the stock internals, then I'll start adding a meth mix or leave it. Until then, time and patience. This build started Jan 2012 when I found the car. Electronic manipulation started Aug 2012 when XRT decided to throw out the manual and give it a try and its been electronic manipulation ever since. (I will remind everyone, when I started this XRT is the only tuner that didn't come to the project with failure on his mind; read the link west_minist posted)

At the time of this post, 3900 lb Automatic, 291/250, E85 fueling, Full time AWD, 18 mpg, almost no HCs (5 ppm) and 0 CO emission out the tailpipe. Power and "Green", which is what I wanted to prove from the start.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:23 AM   #6
cardocm
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Member#: 359856
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Austin
Vehicle:
2001 Outback VDC
White

Default Graphs

The first one is FPTs final tune, the second is on the Dyno at Stout.



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Old 11-03-2013, 09:11 AM   #7
west_minist
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Caribbean
Vehicle:
2000 JDM Impreza SRX
w/ AVCS Silver

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What must also be stated, The original tuned run with a 5.6-7.6psi pulley wheel. Over time, Raptor have release a new impeller, which not only produce more boost, but more flow.

I am not taking nothing away from FPT, since this is his thread.

Original tuned started here http://www.xtremeracingtuning.com/fo...php?f=40&t=453 where low boost and old impeller.

I had enlisted Nikos from xswrex to dissembled the rom to find the boost logic, VE map(s) and MAP Sensor. After a few weeks, no luck. So its great everyone coming together and CarDoc constant updates for all of us to chime in. All Dynoes postes in EcuEdit format are XRT, even long after the tuning moved to greater hikes.

Again to the Ed's, RR and all others, even Nikos - we are proud to see the car close too 300WHP and cannot wait to see it break it.

Last edited by west_minist; 11-03-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:04 AM   #8
fastblueufo
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Member#: 212154
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ed@fastperformancetuning.com
Vehicle:
02 bugeye, manley
ej257, pt5857, MBP on E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by west_minist View Post
Ed,

Just for additional info:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...er-vdc-42.html

I created the first definition after take a few days to weeks to get key important maps. What was illusive was the VE and MAP sensor settings. It was frustrating not being able to control the fuel.

The ve map wasn't discovered as the def wasn't available at the time. Something like the ve was determine, but didn't seem realistic when viewed.

Also the MAP couldn't be change since no greater support to locate it in the rom by myself and Nikos (xswrex)

Usually in maf based roms, you have multiplier and offset.

CarDoc was advice on a proper ems, but the auto tranny was holding him back. I got him to chat with Phil from Element Tuning but again due to the Auto, the stock ECU was still the best alternative.

Its great you made some head way and once he is happy where he is now, that's great. Its still not prefect, but what the hect. The ball is in his court.

Great work along with all supporting people.
Wasnt knocking your work on the car at all. I was only stating how things were when I got ask to have a shot at it. You had the balls to do more than any of the other tuners he asked about doing it. He got alot of "it cant be done". Without your work in the beginning he might have abandoned the project. I should have included more info links to the whole project but I like short post and ill leave that for you and Cardoc. Thats what the thread is for.

This project is far from over. I want to see 300whp as bad as Cardoc. So im trying to talk him into a meth kit.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:33 AM   #9
cardocm
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Member#: 359856
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Austin
Vehicle:
2001 Outback VDC
White

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300+ is doable without meth. The math says it will. Jon's map is close, as you can see where the knock starts. I've made corrections to the VE and fuel table. I'll find out when I get a replacement cable from Mike.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:23 PM   #10
west_minist
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Member#: 53451
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Caribbean
Vehicle:
2000 JDM Impreza SRX
w/ AVCS Silver

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If it was a turbo, you would just up the boost a little if you had the flow. Lol.

I am cool Ed.

Have a great weekend.

CarDoc, like you, I had enough. Eyes hurting now. Take care.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:19 PM   #11
XSV Klutch
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Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado!
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2007 Impreza 2.5i
greyish

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a cam regrind may get you there, but awesome build! You run a 1/4 mile?
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:50 AM   #12
VIsubi
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06 2.5i impreza
Red

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Wow thats pretty exciting to see and I'm sure the owner is pleased and will rep you guys big. I want to go this route E85 on my raptor supercharger. In the process of moving to Ohio for a refinery position so once thats in the works I will get on this also. Ed is actually very awesome at what he does and seeing as the Virtual Dyno isn't far off from the real dyno..actually lower. Its safe to say that this software works well. So my 234hp 2.5i Raptor Supercharged isn't far off from those actually numbers. And Stock Block is still working great too ... I won't lie though haha I get scared taking it into the above 4k range even though I still have 3k more...car screams like a bat out of hell. But unlike turbo if you want boost you really gottah drive it in the upper RPM range. Anything under 3k is just a normal over efficient 2.5i( thanks to always in some form of boost)
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #13
VIsubi
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06 2.5i impreza
Red

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still though gottah like that car is 2006 and only has 34k on it..I should be happy right? And maintenance every 3k , tranny and gear oil changed at 15k once I get settled it will be time to change rear and tranny again. I have to thank tuning today compared to 10 years ago on the RS with piggybacks and poor tuning. These cars actually run well with boost once tuned
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #14
west_minist
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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2000 JDM Impreza SRX
w/ AVCS Silver

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Just dont go too thin on the oil if you pushing it too hard to too long
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