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Old 02-04-2013, 07:56 PM   #1
smokeroors
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Default 2013 wrx stage 1 Data logs

From what I know everything seems to be fine but something was troubleing me so i just want to be sure. Here are a few logs from today. No knock showing in the logs however when i was viewing live data after a long drive home i checked out the "knock sum cyl 1,2,3, and 4. Cylinder 2 showed 130 knock episodes in about a 120 mile drive. Cylinders 2 and 3 showed 5 each and 4 was 15. Now reading forums everyone says dont pay attention to this but ive only seen cylinder 4 raised because thats where the knock sensor is. So why is my Cylinder 2 knock sum going bat **** crazy?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2c&usp=sharing

If anyone can shed some light to make me feel safe it would be much appreciated!
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:48 AM   #2
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by smokeroors View Post
From what I know everything seems to be fine but something was troubleing me so i just want to be sure. Here are a few logs from today. No knock showing in the logs however when i was viewing live data after a long drive home i checked out the "knock sum cyl 1,2,3, and 4. Cylinder 2 showed 130 knock episodes in about a 120 mile drive. Cylinders 2 and 3 showed 5 each and 4 was 15. Now reading forums everyone says dont pay attention to this but ive only seen cylinder 4 raised because thats where the knock sensor is. So why is my Cylinder 2 knock sum going bat **** crazy?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2c&usp=sharing

If anyone can shed some light to make me feel safe it would be much appreciated!
Can you post up a log showing the 4 knock sum values?

If cylinder 2 is showing as the highest, that is a bit unusual. IIRC, I think that I've seen that before on a few cars (those that support per cylinder knock sum). For most cars, 4 shows the highest count with 2 the second highest. But, really, the values themselves are meaningless because they are also being incremented at idle and extremely low loads where the knock detection system doesn't work properly (which is why the ECU does not respond to these perceived knock events). As to why yours is showing 2 as higher, it may be that the knock sensor is not quite orientated right from the factory. But, I don't think that is necessarily a problem in and of itself. It may have no real-world significance when you get down to it. Would be interesting to see knock sum values from other 13' WRX owners.

Bill
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:24 AM   #3
smokeroors
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&usp=sharing

This log was taken this morning also during a long drive. about half way through my trip i took a log. As you can see cylinder 2 and 4 are still marking lots of events. All of this is under 3000 rpm and mostly on cruise control. They do not log new events during WOT. I just dont know what to think about it because otherwise everything seems fine.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #4
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE&usp=sharing

There is another one from a few minutes before.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:34 AM   #5
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&usp=sharing

This log was taken this morning also during a long drive. about half way through my trip i took a log. As you can see cylinder 2 and 4 are still marking lots of events. All of this is under 3000 rpm and mostly on cruise control. They do not log new events during WOT. I just dont know what to think about it because otherwise everything seems fine.
Again, the values themselves are meaningless. All cars will show some high values, usually more so in cylinder 4 followed by cylinder 2, and that is perfectly normal. Yours shows a little higher values in cylinder 2 than cylinder 4, but I don't think that is anything to worry about. As far as using the knock sum parameters, you just want to see when they increment during your WOT run (or other high load situations). The fact that they increment at idle/low load due to noise really means nothing.

Bill
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:37 AM   #6
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Is it possible that there is a loose part rattling around near cyl 2? The knock sums are always higher on my #2 and #4, but 4 is always highest.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #7
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Again, the values themselves are meaningless. All cars will show some high values, usually more so in cylinder 4 followed by cylinder 2, and that is perfectly normal. Yours shows a little higher values in cylinder 2 than cylinder 4, but I don't think that is anything to worry about. As far as using the knock sum parameters, you just want to see when they increment during your WOT run (or other high load situations). The fact that they increment at idle/low load due to noise really means nothing.

Bill
Thanks Bill. So otherwise everything looks good here right? Is it normal for my boost to start tapering off by 3300 rpm?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #8
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Is it possible that there is a loose part rattling around near cyl 2? The knock sums are always higher on my #2 and #4, but 4 is always highest.
If there is its been like that from factory. Haven't changed anything under the hood.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:48 AM   #9
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Is it possible that there is a loose part rattling around near cyl 2? The knock sums are always higher on my #2 and #4, but 4 is always highest.
Doubtful - something rattling in the engine bay that could be picked up by the knock sensor will usually show random noise on all 4 cylinders, not a single cylinder. And you would see it in more extreme feedback correction or fine knock learning correction at lower loads.

Bill
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:45 PM   #10
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Mine is exactly the same. During a 20 min ride home from work the other day it logged 85 sum on cyl 2, less than 10 on the other 3. Never anything during a WOT data log. I'm not really concerned, maybe they moved the knock sensor......
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:27 AM   #11
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Mine is exactly the same. During a 20 min ride home from work the other day it logged 85 sum on cyl 2, less than 10 on the other 3. Never anything during a WOT data log. I'm not really concerned, maybe they moved the knock sensor......
logged mine this morning (30mile drive to work) and i got like #1 (0) #2 (33) #3 (1) #4 (8)

Im just running the Cobb OTS Stage 1+SF LWG map. Everything else is stock and my car only has 2500 miles on it right now.

These logs were taken on 4/3/2013 at 7:30PM-ish and it was about 62-70F out on surface streets. (these dont have a huge value of knock compared to this morning for some reason. Ill post that later today when I can find another USB cable.)

Now for some reason I PEAK target boost at 25psi (log 1 in the middle somewhere?) randomly but the rest were fine.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&usp=sharing

Here is today's Log (4/4/13 7:15am-ish 61-64F outside on the freeway)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wc&usp=sharing

Last edited by pkluong; 07-04-2013 at 01:58 AM. Reason: added log
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:21 AM   #12
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logged mine this morning (30mile drive to work) and i got like #1 (0) #2 (33) #3 (1) #4 (8)

Im just running the Cobb OTS Stage 1+SF LWG map. Everything else is stock and my car only has 2500 miles on it right now.

These logs were taken on 4/3/2013 at 7:30PM-ish and it was about 62-70F out on surface streets. (these dont have a huge value of knock compared to this morning for some reason. Ill post that later today when I can find another USB cable.)

Not for some reason I PEAK target boost at 25psi (log 1 in the middle somewhere?) randomly but the rest were fine.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&usp=sharing

Here is today's Log (4/4/13 7:15am-ish 61-64F outside on the freeway)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wc&usp=sharing
The values shown for each knock sum monitor is really irrelevant - it will increment at idle and low loads when the knock detection system sucks as distinguishing combustion knock from other engine noises. As such, they are just a tool to use to see when they increment (to determine a perceived knock event). Keep in mind that you will see random knock events with normal around-town type driving and with throttle changes - this is normal noise. What you don't want to see is consistent knock in the middle of a wide open throttle (WOT) run or consistent multiple knock events in very short period of time) at any time.

You have one WOT run in your last log and it looks good.

The large boost target (25 psi or so) that you see in the log is a large 1st gear compensation we use in our maps. This pushes the target high in order to achieve better boost response in 1st gear in which you would not have any risk of overboosting, but would are likely to be well under your target normally.

Bill
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
The values shown for each knock sum monitor is really irrelevant - it will increment at idle and low loads when the knock detection system sucks as distinguishing combustion knock from other engine noises. As such, they are just a tool to use to see when they increment (to determine a perceived knock event). Keep in mind that you will see random knock events with normal around-town type driving and with throttle changes - this is normal noise. What you don't want to see is consistent knock in the middle of a wide open throttle (WOT) run or consistent multiple knock events in very short period of time) at any time.

You have one WOT run in your last log and it looks good.

The large boost target (25 psi or so) that you see in the log is a large 1st gear compensation we use in our maps. This pushes the target high in order to achieve better boost response in 1st gear in which you would not have any risk of overboosting, but would are likely to be well under your target normally.

Bill
Sounds good then. Thanks Bill!
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:12 PM   #14
alexr40
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I was having the same question and searching i found this threat. Mine is also a 2013 wrx and for some reason cylinder 2 is always super high against all others knock sums.

Right now I got:

Cyl #1: 1
Cyl #2: 53
Cyl #3: 0
Cyl #4: 3

I have read around people having the same situation. When I check they have 2013 wrx!

Last edited by alexr40; 05-21-2015 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:35 PM   #15
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You have 3 cyl1's?! Awesome :P

Like Bill mentioned, don't worry much about knock sum unless you suspect an issue. FBKC and FLKC as well as DAM are what need to be watched.
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:07 PM   #16
alexr40
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You have 3 cyl1's?! Awesome :P

Like Bill mentioned, don't worry much about knock sum unless you suspect an issue. FBKC and FLKC as well as DAM are what need to be watched.
hahahaha. sorry.. copy/paste lazyness.

Yes i know.. I just wanted to chime in in order to share what other 2013 wrx fellows notice regarding knock sensor and its possible relocation in 2013. Seems to catch more noise in #2 rather than #4 like previous years.

This could possibly affect 2013 WRX OTS maps where there's added timing in cyl#4 because the sensor listens better in that area and pull timing faster than other cylinders. If this is true, then modifications to the maps should be made and add those extra 0.35 degrees in cyl2 instead of cyl4.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:16 PM   #17
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hahahaha. sorry.. copy/paste lazyness.

Yes i know.. I just wanted to chime in in order to share what other 2013 wrx fellows notice regarding knock sensor and its possible relocation in 2013. Seems to catch more noise in #2 rather than #4 like previous years.

This could possibly affect 2013 WRX OTS maps where there's added timing in cyl#4 because the sensor listens better in that area and pull timing faster than other cylinders. If this is true, then modifications to the maps should be made and add those extra 0.35 degrees in cyl2 instead of cyl4.
My car is also the same way. 2013 WRX. Most of the time #2 is higher than #4 and sometimes #4 is higher or sometimes they’re both equal. I get a Knock Sum increase when accelerating at low RPM, and even more when accelerating out of a turn. Timing is always pulled from #2 instead of #4, so I don’t know if something got mixed up at the factory or if Subaru is experimenting between putting the sensor on #2 or #4.
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:51 PM   #18
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You have 3 cyl1's?! Awesome :P

Like Bill mentioned, don't worry much about knock sum unless you suspect an issue. FBKC and FLKC as well as DAM are what need to be watched.
What would be the factor to bring attention that would need reviewing of the sum values? Some form of knock that stays there or one that appears at all?
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Old 05-28-2015, 08:22 AM   #19
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The only time I enable and log knock sums is if I have fine knock learn. This way I can see if the knock is actually happening or just learned from a previous pull. I would just ignore them.
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:29 PM   #20
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The only time I enable and log knock sums is if I have fine knock learn. This way I can see if the knock is actually happening or just learned from a previous pull. I would just ignore them.
I always log Knock Sums, but whenever I have Fine Knock Learn it decreases to -1.4 and starts increasing timing again and I never get an increase in Knock Sums.

It mostly increases when I am accelerating aggressively from low RPM or after shifting and taking turns too aggressively.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:12 PM   #21
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FWIW my car is still not blown up and I've had over 300whp for 40k miles.
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Old 06-15-2015, 02:41 PM   #22
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FWIW my car is still not blown up and I've had over 300whp for 40k miles.
Same here. It's a relief to know I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. Others from 2013 and up (small minority) have this problem where #2 is active than the others. Just this morning on my 25 min commute my Knock Sums totaled 25 for #2 and 5 for #4 and 0 on the others. On other vehicles it's the other way around. It's like the knock sensor is on the wrong block on my car.

It’s usually random, sometimes #4 is higher or they’re both equal, but usually #2 is higher.

I don’t know how these sensors work, but they’re a complete mind****.

No difference in drivability.
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