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Old 02-11-2013, 11:20 AM   #51
mhoward1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I will reitterate that it comes down your definition of serious.
For the street and HPDE events a highly evolved FWD car is LOADS of fun, which is the true measure of greatness for a car purchased by a non professional driver.

Fun. The term compeititve is meaningless and should be striken from any arguement involving a street car. A MS3 is an absolute hoot to drive. I would wager by my two test drives a Focus ST is a great car as well.

The drivetrain configuration is not nearly as important as the level of engineering that was put into the car. To prove my point, the 911 still exists and is successful. Not because having an engine that hangs out behind the rear wheels is a good thing, but because they have found a way to make it work, and work VERY well.

Do not get hung up on FWD/AWD/RWD. Go drive the darn cars and NeVER let yourself think that you are a competitive race car driver, because you are not. You drive on the street, and do 'for fun' track days. Times mean exactly squat. Being competitive means nothing when there is not trophy or money at the end of the day.

I will continue to drive what feels good, what feels fun, what feels alive (which is why I bought the R over a GTI), and I could give a rats A$$ about being 'competitive' in some imaginary race that does not exist.
Speak for yourself!!



I drive Flat out.

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Old 02-11-2013, 04:17 PM   #52
rob1n1
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Do not get hung up on FWD/AWD/RWD. Go drive the darn cars and NeVER let yourself think that you are a competitive race car driver, because you are not. You drive on the street, and do 'for fun' track days. Times mean exactly squat. Being competitive means nothing when there is not trophy or money at the end of the day.
Going a little OT here: but did you see the beginning of the Top Gear segment about the GT86/BRZ? Where they had an example of a FWD car struggling through understeer around a corner, and then a RWD AMG Merc sliding through and oversteering like crazy?

Wouldn't that be pretty bad on a track if you were in the FWD situation? Or is that a matter of driver control and being able to handle it?

The BRZ just looks like so much fun to whip around corners... Mainly because it's RWD.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:23 PM   #53
SCRAPPYDO
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I did not see that espisode, but there are many FWD car that can over steer through a corner. Again, fun and speed are not drivetrain dependent for the type of driving we as mere mortals do. A properly set up FWD car can be just as much fun as a properly rear wheel drive car. The engineering behind a car is far more important than layout.

I will take the conversation further and say that if you are oversteering like crazy you are already going slower through the corner. The same holds true if you are understeering through the same corner. Which is worse depends too drastically on too many variables. But to me fun is cutting the perfect line in whatever car I am driving just up to and maybe beyond the traction limit of my tires.

In the end, it really depends on what you as an individual think is fun.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #54
rob1n1
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Whipping that ass out in a BRZ looks fun.

Every time I watch a BRZ track clip, I want one even more.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:54 PM   #55
moonrider_99
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The ms3 is really surprising in the handling department, its sharp like a scalpel- reminds me of an evo. Sure its fwd and you need to adjust for it but it works. I am looking forward to the 2013 autox season.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:03 AM   #56
SCRAPPYDO
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As you should be!

If I can get away I may try the golf R on the cones this year. Not sure if I will be able to break free. Plus I think the Z will be infinitely more fun
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:38 AM   #57
Calamity Jesus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Going a little OT here: but did you see the beginning of the Top Gear segment about the GT86/BRZ? Where they had an example of a FWD car struggling through understeer around a corner, and then a RWD AMG Merc sliding through and oversteering like crazy?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Wouldn't that be pretty bad on a track if you were in the FWD situation? Or is that a matter of driver control and being able to handle it?
If you're getting into trouble because you're understeering while trying to put the power down coming out of a corner.. you have driver control issues (or setup issues), yes.


You know what else understeers like that? A WRX.



Nothing like an open front diff and a heavy front axle weight bias to spell heavy understeer under power. (the STI is different.. it transitions from moderate understeer to slight oversteer under full power)

Is RWD more fun on a track? Absolutely. Does that mean FWD cars are bad? Hell no. They're just different.. and you drive them differently.. just like you need to drive an AWD car differently than a RWD car.
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