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Old 02-07-2013, 06:49 PM   #1
Raider2005
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Default Cams Or Not?

I have a 2005 sti i spun a rod bearing and ordered a short block for it and stage 2 brian crower cams and injectors and ARP headstuds. once i get done with it will it be still a reiable car or shold i always worry about something going wrong
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:54 PM   #2
the suicidal eggroll
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Your thread subject and post are asking two different questions....are you asking if you should run cams or not or are you asking if your engine is going to grenade again?
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:06 PM   #3
Raider2005
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like if i use them will my car not be reiable to drive 4hrs on the weekends and not have to worry about it and jst do regular oil changes and stuff
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:28 PM   #4
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Depends on the builder the tuner and the drivers ability to not grenade it
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:35 PM   #5
the suicidal eggroll
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The cams themselves will not affect the engine's reliability, no. The biggest factor in reliability is maintenance and the quality of the tune.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:44 AM   #6
Raider2005
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Ya I was gonna have it pro tuned. I have always kept up on the maintenance
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #7
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If your not running a larger turbo the cams were worthless
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:26 PM   #8
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I'm going to up grade my turbo but not right away
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #9
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A quick google of how a camshaft works would have answered your question.

If you already purchased the parts and then are second guessing them does that make sense?

Why must a new thread be posted, every time someone has a mundane question.

here man

Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 02-09-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:02 AM   #10
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^^^^^^^
that link is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:45 PM   #11
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Cams are worthless unless you above 500whp i would say. Why do you need cams to draw in more air when the turbos job is to deliver more air?
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosseywrx View Post
Cams are worthless unless you above 500whp i would say. Why do you need cams to draw in more air when the turbos job is to deliver more air?


I think you need to do some homework.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosseywrx View Post
Cams are worthless unless you above 500whp i would say. Why do you need cams to draw in more air when the turbos job is to deliver more air?

really?

because a 35r car locally can make 400whp on lets say 22psi. (dont remember exact)

the same car/turbo with cams made 400whp on 18psi. (i do remember it bening a 4psi drop to obtain the same whp)

This is coming off my memory from a discussion and dyno session that was going on back in 2009 when I just happened to pop in.


cams might be worthless on a stock frame turbo, but thats it.


edit- OP - your thread is, well, not needed to put it in a nice manor.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat_WRX View Post
really?

because a 35r car locally can make 400whp on lets say 22psi. (dont remember exact)

the same car/turbo with cams made 400whp on 18psi. (i do remember it bening a 4psi drop to obtain the same whp)

This is coming off my memory from a discussion and dyno session that was going on back in 2009 when I just happened to pop in.


cams might be worthless on a stock frame turbo, but thats it.
^This, but even with a stock turbo. Nicely built heads with cams can have a huge impact on power and response. For example, Cosworth big ported heads with cams. Complete fully powerband all the way to redline.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosseywrx View Post
Cams are worthless unless you above 500whp i would say. Why do you need cams to draw in more air when the turbos job is to deliver more air?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider327 View Post
^This, but even with a stock turbo. Nicely built heads with cams can have a huge impact on power and response. For example, Cosworth big ported heads with cams. Complete fully powerband all the way to redline.

you gonna spend 5 grand on some heads just so you can run the stock turbo?
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:21 PM   #16
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Cams can affect reliability. Going with a bigger cam usually necessitates using springs with higher spring rates. A firmer spring will put more stress on the valvetrain, and be an incremental hit to longevity. How much, I don't know, but the effect is real.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:54 PM   #17
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Wow did I reopen a can of worms. The only intelligent comment since I posted was by meat_WRX. Yes heads w/ cams can improve the overall powerband but the fact remains that the stock turbo will fall on its face at higher rpm. So, unless a turbo upgrade is in the near future all these gains will be minimal and not cost effective. You will spend 5k+ for maybe 50whp and trq (being optimistic). That doesn't include the cost of the parts and labor involved in upgrading heads.

As you can see it adds up fast. Just an upgraded stock location, fuel system, and tune will cost ~3k and can get gains get better gains.

My .02
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:39 PM   #18
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If you guys are spending 5k for cams your getting ripped off. I bought crower 272s for ~500 and the machine shop charged me 750 to clean, resurface, valve job and install new cams and set the valve lash.
On a stock car as a first mod don't bother but if you have the motor apart anyway and have plans for a bigger turbo its definitely cost effective to do it while the engine is apart
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy_Rob View Post
If you guys are spending 5k for cams your getting ripped off. I bought crower 272s for ~500 and the machine shop charged me 750 to clean, resurface, valve job and install new cams and set the valve lash.
On a stock car as a first mod don't bother but if you have the motor apart anyway and have plans for a bigger turbo its definitely cost effective to do it while the engine is apart
And we have a winner . . . If your already there might as well get it done when the thing is apart. I also got the Brian Crower 272's and they made amazing differents, I also did the rest of the valve train so I could rev to 8k and not worry.

Also do NOT over pay, I got a fully built long block for $7500 maybe $8000 (cant remember its a big blur of parts and such lol) it maxed out my fuel system and made 420 whp peaking up at 7900 rpm. It all comes to balancing your build. The cams, compression, fuel, and turbo are the most basic pieces of the system to focus on. If you need/want some specifics on what you might want to do PM me and I will be happy to point you in a good genneral direction.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:02 PM   #20
Cr4ckfi3nd
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Fail..... read a lil closer next time, no one is spending 5k on just cams.

Yes if its apart and you have future plans then by all means yes, put the cams in. But based on this post there are no "real plans" so this not the best use of the money at this time. If the op actually puts together a plan for his future build then this might be a good time for cams.

I learned these lessons the hard way and now i have a spreadsheet with every single part i plan to put on my car in order of which ones should be installed first and grouped by parts that should be installed together. I have a defined power and performance goal and have researched how to reach that and have chosen parts to accomplish my goal. That is a plan. The end.

Edit: in reference to 2 posts ago.... and then some....

Last edited by Cr4ckfi3nd; 05-11-2013 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:15 PM   #21
Scuby04STi
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True, it is not the best use of the money at the moment. If you KNOW you will put a big old beautiful turbo on then cam it, if you are keeping a turbo that doesnt like going over the 6800 mark stick to stock.

Here is a perfect idea, list ALL the mods you have done or plan to do. There are plenty of people here who can help ease your mind when they have all the information.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:26 PM   #22
Cr4ckfi3nd
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^^^^^^^
Totally agree
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post

And we have a winner . . . If your already there might as well get it done when the thing is apart. I also got the Brian Crower 272's and they made amazing differents, I also did the rest of the valve train so I could rev to 8k and not worry.

Also do NOT over pay, I got a fully built long block for $7500 maybe $8000 (cant remember its a big blur of parts and such lol) it maxed out my fuel system and made 420 whp peaking up at 7900 rpm. It all comes to balancing your build. The cams, compression, fuel, and turbo are the most basic pieces of the system to focus on. If you need/want some specifics on what you might want to do PM me and I will be happy to point you in a good genneral direction.
Not that its a big deal but I meant actual crower cams not Brian crowers. Deals can always be found if you look hard enough
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:43 PM   #24
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No thats a massive deal cowboy_rob, LOL

Out of curiosity where does your power die off?

I want to get people to make a break down of cam/turbo/fuel combo's and show people what combo likes to go together the most. Seeing everyone told me these cams where nearly stock, I just look back and laugh.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
No thats a massive deal cowboy_rob, LOL

Out of curiosity where does your power die off?

I want to get people to make a break down of cam/turbo/fuel combo's and show people what combo likes to go together the most. Seeing everyone told me these cams where nearly stock, I just look back and laugh.
Tough to tell at this point where the power falls off at lol


Outfront block, crower cams, bc springs and retainers, Fp red, aps fmic, dw1000's, clutch masters 6puck, and a walbro 255 that just may need upgraded
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