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Old 07-06-2013, 05:04 PM   #176
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Radeon, lets be honest we like Subaru and in many cases its the best bang for the buck; but it's not always the best buy. Also I'm not going to pretend that the R is the most refined car, but it is better than anything Subaru makes, that is a fact that is easily proven by a novice shopper.
If they still made an 08-09 spec.b, I would've easily preferred it to the R (for roughly the same msrp), including the interior quality.

Do I dispute that the R has a hair better interior that the WRX Limited? No. But it's not "miles ahead". For _me_ it misses the key features I'm willing to pay for.
I'm gonna wait to pass judgement on the new R, until I drive one and see the prices. The current R doesn't make sense for me. Marginally better interior over WRX does not cost several grand to me, someone else might have different preferences. And comparison of the R to STI simply didn't even occur to me as something that makes non-zero sense.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #177
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One of the only reasons I didn't buy the black 4 door hatch that I tested was they fact that the new one is right around the corner and watched the spy video. It's good but the new one should be leaps better. I think that VW has heard the critics and are willing to respond because its one thing to hear an enthusiast crowd whine but it's a whole other thing to have all popular media sources give you the thumbs down. They need to fix that, and the new GTI shows that they are going in the right direction.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:01 PM   #178
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If they still made an 08-09 spec.b, I would've easily preferred it to the R (for roughly the same msrp), including the interior quality.

Do I dispute that the R has a hair better interior that the WRX Limited? No. But it's not "miles ahead". For _me_ it misses the key features I'm willing to pay for.
I'm gonna wait to pass judgement on the new R, until I drive one and see the prices. The current R doesn't make sense for me. Marginally better interior over WRX does not cost several grand to me, someone else might have different preferences. And comparison of the R to STI simply didn't even occur to me as something that makes non-zero sense.
I respect your opinion on what you feel about the R's interior. Marginally better interior is just funny to me. I am not sure of one single area the WRX has anything even equal to the R.

What key features does the R miss that you would be willing to pay for (I admit Homelink is a big omission I still do not understand) , but other than that, what is the R missing.

It has better seats, better carpet, better sun visors, better design and materials for the dash, real aluminum trim versus plasic, it has a nicer nav system, A hell of a lot better stereo, touch sensitive door handles that sense you fingers and open the doors and lock them, push button start, Driver information center between the two gages that offer a world of useful info, Better floor mats, better feeling buttons on the dash, much better door cards with different textures and soft touch materials, it has a better steering wheel, It has a nice cargo lock down system, hooks everywhere for things, latches where you want them, a half decent auto dual zone climate control if you are into those things, and the list just keeps rolling...

WHat exactly is the R missing? And where would you say the WRX is equal to the R if the R is only marginally better? I can buy most of what people say about the R. NOt as sharp as an STi, true. Not as fast as an STi, true again. But it costs less than a loaded STi as well, and gives you so much more.

THe R is not for everybody. You have to be secure enough in who you are to drive a car that stock is not as fast as another car you could purchase. You are choosing to buy refinement over speed. That is a huge step in the life of a car buyer who calls himself/herself an enthusiast. Interestingly enough though, I have not been this happy with my car since I first bought my 2006 STI, but I was 33 back then, and thought I needed a race car for the street.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:02 PM   #179
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I realized i never addressed your spec B comment. If they had made a 2013 Spec B or even a 2013 legacy GT I would have bought it on the spot.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:36 AM   #180
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THe R is not for everybody. You have to be secure enough in who you are to drive a car that stock is not as fast as another car you could purchase. You are choosing to buy refinement over speed. That is a huge step in the life of a car buyer who calls himself/herself an enthusiast. Interestingly enough though, I have not been this happy with my car since I first bought my 2006 STI, but I was 33 back then, and thought I needed a race car for the street.
You are on a roll these days. That's an excellent post.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:49 AM   #181
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That is a huge step in the life of a car buyer who calls himself/herself an enthusiast.
Yes, a step backward.

On the substance of your post - I already said, there's a seat position memory, tons of other cars at the price of the R have cooled seats, homelink, I can go on.

I'm not talking about what WRX has, I'm talking about features that R should have at that price/power/level of drivetrain tech point. For the price of the R you can get g37x or the new q50. Compare the interior features and see what should be there in a car for an enthusiast that decided to get something easier on his/her butt.

Audis have much nicer interiors than Subaru, R doesn't. Material quality is better, but by a bit. Feel the leather in Subaru, Audi and R. The latter is a ton closer to that of Subaru.

Steering wheel? I don't care how it looks/feels outside of 9-3 steering position. The R felt weird in that position.

Seats are better designed in the R, too bad WRX doesn't get alcantara insets. Touch-sensitive doors/pushbutton start? Got those in a BRZ, don't really care for those.

I don't want to get too winded here, for me it all boils down to materials. They are better in the R, but like I said before, on the scale between Subaru and Audi, R's materials are a lot closer to Subaru.

What's really missing on the R - a factory-installed short-throw kit. The stock shifter has exaggerated throws and somewhat sloppy. The latter is basically what turned me off the most during the test-drive.

The R would make sense to me if it was a grand, two tops over the WRX Limited. At $35k, I'm getting an STI no questions. If the next-gen R prices remain the same (which I doubt) it would have a fighting chance in a trade-off between performance of an STI and interior quality of the new R. Right now it's a trade off: is a somewhat nicer interior worth several grand over the price of a WRX Limited. Some people will answer 'yes' to the latter, I'm not one of them.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:55 AM   #182
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You have to be secure enough in who you are to drive a car that stock is not as fast as another car you could purchase.
Same could be said about the brz/frs.

As a total package, your r is a solid car, let the internet peanut gallery eat a dick. Maybe its a bit overpriced at retail, but.... is anyone paying retail for them? The 08 model thanks to the economy meltdown was doable for under 30k like the sti at the time.

Hopefully for you this r holds the resale of the previous 2 us releases.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #183
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I realized i never addressed your spec B comment. If they had made a 2013 Spec B or even a 2013 legacy GT I would have bought it on the spot.
If they made it less boat-looking... this.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:45 AM   #184
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THe R is not for everybody. You have to be secure enough in who you are to drive a car that stock is not as fast as another car you could purchase. You are choosing to buy refinement over speed. That is a huge step in the life of a car buyer who calls himself/herself an enthusiast. Interestingly enough though, I have not been this happy with my car since I first bought my 2006 STI, but I was 33 back then, and thought I needed a race car for the street.
Someone gets it!
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #185
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Yes, a step backward.

On the substance of your post - I already said, there's a seat position memory, tons of other cars at the price of the R have cooled seats, homelink, I can go on.

I'm not talking about what WRX has, I'm talking about features that R should have at that price/power/level of drivetrain tech point. For the price of the R you can get g37x or the new q50. Compare the interior features and see what should be there in a car for an enthusiast that decided to get something easier on his/her butt.

Audis have much nicer interiors than Subaru, R doesn't. Material quality is better, but by a bit. Feel the leather in Subaru, Audi and R. The latter is a ton closer to that of Subaru.

Steering wheel? I don't care how it looks/feels outside of 9-3 steering position. The R felt weird in that position.

Seats are better designed in the R, too bad WRX doesn't get alcantara insets. Touch-sensitive doors/pushbutton start? Got those in a BRZ, don't really care for those.

I don't want to get too winded here, for me it all boils down to materials. They are better in the R, but like I said before, on the scale between Subaru and Audi, R's materials are a lot closer to Subaru.

What's really missing on the R - a factory-installed short-throw kit. The stock shifter has exaggerated throws and somewhat sloppy. The latter is basically what turned me off the most during the test-drive.

The R would make sense to me if it was a grand, two tops over the WRX Limited. At $35k, I'm getting an STI no questions. If the next-gen R prices remain the same (which I doubt) it would have a fighting chance in a trade-off between performance of an STI and interior quality of the new R. Right now it's a trade off: is a somewhat nicer interior worth several grand over the price of a WRX Limited. Some people will answer 'yes' to the latter, I'm not one of them.
WRONG, G37X STARTS at almost 39k. The Golf R is LOADED, completely loaded at 36515. So if a thousand or two dollars makes a difference your argument falls flat on its face. The G37x cannot be had in a manual, you have to step up to the RWD G37S, which starts at over 41k. Again, about 5k more than the Golf R. Lets see where else you are far off the mark. Because you are off to a terrible start.

Seat memory position is an option that the Golf R does not have. That is true, Since I am the only driver, I cannot see any value in it either. But the MORE EXPENSIVE STI does not have a power seat of any kind. I have not looked but which cars have memory seats for 36k? I already mentioned Homelink, and I accept that this is an oversite, especially when it is available on other VW models.

But other than that, what else does the R not have? I want you to go on. Please let me know what 36k dollar is better equipped. Hint, if you really want to have a shot at this you have to look at the Koreans. I would recommend you start there. Both your infiniti cars were Competely wrong...try again.

I never said anything about Audi, but I would expect the materials to be better. They cost far more. I will lump all audi comments in with the infiniti comments as useless.

You know a Rolls Royce has better materials than an R as well. So does Jag. So we can just sum up most of your post as saying cars that cost a lot more have nicer interiors...How much nicer is subjective.

I started getting really interested when you said, 'what is really missing with the R is..." NOW WE ARE GETTING somewhere.

then you wrote 'is a short shifter'.. HHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH....at that point I had to laugh. While no miata shifter, the R shifter is just fine and while not as tight as the STI Shifter, it makes the OEM shifter in the WRX feel positively truck like. The short shifter in the WRX is had at an additional price. For the same or less money you can get a short shifter for the R as well. I am not really sure what you are even trying to get at... so that second point is a non starter.

WHat it comes down to is you just like the STI better....at 35k, you are getting a stripped STI, which is not even as well equipped as a GTI. The Subaru interior is functional which has merits, but item for item it is not even in the same league as the R. You are not ready yet to trade in some peak performance for refinement, amenities, and technology. I was. You still want to buy the car for .5% of the driving you may do instead of the 99.5% of the driving you actually do. I did the same thing in 2006 when I bought my STI.

I have been there, and done that. The R is not the car for you. IF you want all out performance, you should check out the EVO though. I have had all out performance, I have had cars much faster than my 2006 STI. I have had cars that were slower than my 2006 STI. All cars are a compromise that must be made. Different cars appeal to different people.

I am praying for a LEGACY gt. or a very nice STi this time around.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:30 AM   #186
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Can the Hill-Assist be disabled on the GTI and Golf -R?

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Old 07-07-2013, 10:01 AM   #187
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the 08 i drive on occasion doesn't have a hill assist.

they didn't exactly change much between now and then,
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #188
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WRONG, G37X STARTS at almost 39k. The Golf R is LOADED, completely loaded at 36515.
Go look up real prices people pay for those, then come back.

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For the same or less money you can get a short shifter for the R as well.
And risk losing warranty, per TD1 instructions.

My Spec.b had better interior than the R in my opinion. I had no problem in letting it go for a simpler functional interior and I feel no need to forgo performance to get a tad nicer textures on the plastics. You do.

Stripped STI only lacks leather trim pieces, that's all. You know nothing about my driving patterns, but judging from your 99.5% comments you should've bought yourself something even cushier than the R, which I guess you will soon enough. And still be here trying to paint your decision as something logical. I'll still be here to laugh. Enjoy your nicer A/C buttons.

And please quit it with trying to appear 'mature'. I'm about the same age as you, I went for 'refinement' sooner than you, and it was a mistake.

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Old 07-07-2013, 02:21 PM   #189
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installing a short shifter would void your warranty!

Okay now you are just messing around...right. Seriously.

As far as real prices, you know people get discounts on Golf R's as well. I know of nobody who paid sticker. I paid 35100 without even trying hard, so again, your argument falls apart.

A stripped STI means you give up sunroof and NAV and leather as well. Or are those meaningless to you as well. In fact, you cannot even get a sunroof with a hatch. How is that for amenities and nice features.

Look you can live your life one quarter mile at a time all you want. You can enjoy paying more for less if you like. It is your money slick. I just found it funny that you consider something as utilitarian as the WRX/STI interior as 'almost' as good. I gave an entire list of things that were either inferior or not even available on the WRX/STI.

Like the caveman stereo, the cheap ass plastics, the fake aluminum, the crappy carpet, the bolsterless seats, the rattle interior, the tonka door cards, the flimsy sun visors, and the hits keep on rolling.

You give me memory seats. Yeah, you are hard core buddy! We place different values on things. No getting around that. Enjoy your 'loaded' STI.

I have loved all my Subarus, but when it came time to replace my 2011 WRX with something fun, the 2013 STI was just not good enough. Not when you consider the whole car. It comes up short in too many areas and all for only a sliver of more performance, for a great deal more money.

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Old 07-07-2013, 03:18 PM   #190
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I paid 35100 without even trying hard, so again, your argument falls apart.
Dude, at least exert some effort and look up market value on edmunds for g37x. It's right at $35k

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when it came time to replace my 2011 WRX with something fun, the 2013 STI was just not good enough. Not when you consider the whole car. It comes up short in too many areas and all for only a sliver of more performance, for a great deal more money.
Good troll.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:43 PM   #191
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G37x is such a meh car. The G37/370Z are dated cars with outdated styling that didn't venture far enough from the G35, mediocre Nissan build quality and an old and unrefined engine that sounds like it's going to explode over 6000 RPM. Not bad cars but nothing that anyone can call state of the art or cutting edge. I'll take a Golf R over over those two cars anytime as it's a better all around car that will hold it's value much better.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:25 PM   #192
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And still be here trying to paint your decision as something logical. I'll still be here to laugh. Enjoy your nicer A/C buttons.

And please quit it with trying to appear 'mature'. I'm about the same age as you, I went for 'refinement' sooner than you, and it was a mistake.
Scrappy's choice is "logical" given his preference. It would only have been "illogical" if Scrappy had the same priority as you do but somehow ended up in an R by mistake. And that's clearly not the case.

You sound like you believe your own taste is the only "logical" one. If so, I find it hard to believe you are about the same age as Scrappy.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:46 PM   #193
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G37x is such a meh car.
So is R at that price, and that's my point. It's performance is meh, it's refinement is also meh in absolute terms at that price point.

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Scrappy's choice is "logical" given his preference.
So is mine. But he tries to paint his choice as 'a mature one' or whatever, but doesn't want to bother checking the prices for G, nor VW/Audi own instructions for dealing with 'short-shifters'.

The price of R could only make sense to someone with extreme preferences (among car enthusiasts) for 'refinement' over performance who somehow also really-really wants a hatch. Otherwise I don't see why would anyone buy the current R. There are people like that, there are people out there with all sorts of preferences, but reading how they rationalize their choice by comparing their car to STI and talking about maturity is just funny.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:31 PM   #194
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So is R at that price, and that's my point. It's performance is meh, it's refinement is also meh in absolute terms at that price point.
The R is more exclusive car than a G37. It's an expensive pure enthusiast car.

The TT RS is $60k with 360hp.

These are premium low volume cars, while the G are poor man's BMW.

These cars made purely for enthusiasts. I'm glad they offer it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #195
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So is R at that price, and that's my point. It's performance is meh, it's refinement is also meh in absolute terms at that price point.



So is mine. But he tries to paint his choice as 'a mature one' or whatever, but doesn't want to bother checking the prices for G, nor VW/Audi own instructions for dealing with 'short-shifters'.

The price of R could only make sense to someone with extreme preferences (among car enthusiasts) for 'refinement' over performance who somehow also really-really wants a hatch. Otherwise I don't see why would anyone buy the current R. There are people like that, there are people out there with all sorts of preferences, but reading how they rationalize their choice by comparing their car to STI and talking about maturity is just funny.
I do not believe the R is reserved for "extreme" preferences. Not everyone who buys the R, is shopping only for the R. Case in point, my friends mom bought an R (MKV version) back when it was new. When she was shopping around, I remember going with her to look at 3 series, is250, and an accord. She saw one of the R's driving while we were on a test drive and though it looked neat. We went over, she test drove it and bought. A 60 year old woman who has no "extreme" preference bought an R because she felt value in it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:09 PM   #196
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THe R is not for everybody. You have to be secure enough in who you are to drive a car that stock is not as fast as another car you could purchase. You are choosing to buy refinement over speed. That is a huge step in the life of a car buyer who calls himself/herself an enthusiast. Interestingly enough though, I have not been this happy with my car since I first bought my 2006 STI, but I was 33 back then, and thought I needed a race car for the street.
This pretty much why I haven't modified my R. It is a perfect balance of fun performance and refinement which I fear would be ruined if I tip the balance toward power and better (stiffer) handling. Since they have figured out how to defeat the nanny ECU it is tempting. And sorry to say as much as I love the WRX and STi the WRX Limited is far below the fit and finish of the R, inside and out. Just start with the seats and go from there.

All that said when I finish the Bugeye build I'm dumping the R for an STi daily, probably a 2012 5-door. Refinement gets boring
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #197
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Yes, a step backward.
If you think buying a slightly softer unibody economy car with a turbocharger is somehow less hardcore than buying the stiffest/fastest economy car with a turbocharger.. you really need to go test drive a Z06 or a sportbike and quit playing hopscotch in the yard. Sport compacts are supposed to be fun, not penultimate performance machines. Don't let the fanboi nature of NASIOC get into your bones.. these are cheap dime-a-dozen cars we're talking about here.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:45 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
THe R is not for everybody. You have to be secure enough in who you are to drive a car that stock is not as fast as another car you could purchase. You are choosing to buy refinement over speed. That is a huge step in the life of a car buyer who calls himself/herself an enthusiast. Interestingly enough though, I have not been this happy with my car since I first bought my 2006 STI, but I was 33 back then, and thought I needed a race car for the street.
Indeed. I bought a "performance hatchback" in the ST but don't have the slightest bit of interest in modding it, mainly because I already have a track car, but I also realize that I'm going to have this car in my mid-30s. Do I really want a lowered car with an exhaust and whatever else on it at that time? Heck, I don't even really want it now. It's more than enough stock and I went for comfort and amenitites over outright performance in the WRX. The R (and even GTI) are very attractive options in this category of hot hatches that sacrifice some ultimate performance for refinement. Easily overlooked and an intangible that isn't quantified as easily as the magazine brofest Ring lap or 0-60 times.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #199
4S-TURBO
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I also realize that I'm going to have this car in my mid-30s. Do I really want a lowered car with an exhaust and whatever else on it at that time?
YES!
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:19 PM   #200
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So is R at that price, and that's my point. It's performance is meh, it's refinement is also meh in absolute terms at that price point.
Compare resale value and you will see which car is truly considered meh as used Golf R's sell fast and for premium prices.

Also a Golf R is more refined than a lot of cars that cost considerably more money so I don't understand why you would say the refinement is meh.
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