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Old 10-23-2013, 12:32 PM   #1351
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #1352
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Hey, man. I've got big ideas. You just want to knock them down and tear it apart!

Ok, what are these ideas?

You can't even understand, brah. Why am I wasting my time with you? I could have this street legal F1 car built any day now!

It's been a while, how is it going?

You haters! Get on my level.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #1353
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So I hear there's an F1 race this weekend...
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #1354
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You're in the wrong thread for that.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #1355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post

You said you were going to use a "modified existing vehicle frame".

So you meant you're going to use a ladder frame off a pickup?

Tell us then, what type of existing vehicle frame are you going to modify?

Stealing the tub off an Enzo?
An old tvr.....

Top gear probably still has the plans for the body.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:10 PM   #1356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathexis View Post
An old tvr.....

Top gear probably still has the plans for the body.


Hammerhead Eagle Thrust!


I actually thought about that one (readily available here!) as I was posting. Didn't benefit me to bring it up, of course.

Last edited by SoapBox; 10-23-2013 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:16 PM   #1357
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That's pretty perfect right there.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:37 PM   #1358
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Thumbs up Interesting article + Thoughts On Euro F3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_ View Post
Edd Straw's take on the STR driver choice:
Thank you for posting that article. (Till last year, I had a subscription to Autosport and I do miss their analysis articles.)

The response seen here in this forum to STR choosing Kvyat for 2014 was pretty interesting.

I've been following Euro F3 for a few seasons now because if one examines the current grid of F1, many of them came out of Euro F3, or British F3. Currently, 16 of the 22 F1 drivers came through F3, and the majority via Euro F3:
  1. Vettel - Euro F3
  2. Hamilton - Euro & Brit F3
  3. Webber - Brit F3
  4. Rosberg - Euro F3
  5. Grosjean - Euro & Brit (1 meeting) F3
  6. Button - Brit F3
  7. Hulkenberg - Euro F3
  8. di Resta - Euro F3
  9. Perez - Brit F3
  10. Ricciardo - Euro & Brit F3
  11. Vergne - Brit F3
  12. Gutierrez - Euro F3
  13. Bottas - Euro & Brit F3
  14. Bianchi - Euro F3
  15. van der Garde - Euro F3
  16. Chilton - Brit F3

This season Euro F3 is much easier to follow. All the races are available on Youtube to watch for free, as well as brief race summary videos as well. Candidly, I tend to follow it via print, (news articles and twitter), versus video however.

Back on topic, this season in Euro F3 has seen some good talent rise to the top. In particular, there is a kid named Raffaele Marciello who won the championship after finishing 3rd last season. Initially, he fought against another strong talent named Pascal Wehrlein. But Wehrlein picked up a DTM ride for this season and so only raced the first meeting of this F3 season (which = 3 races). There is an amazing kid named Felix Rosenqvist who really stood out, and finished 2nd in points this season. There is a young brit named Alex Lynn who purposely chose Euro F3 to learn how to work with European engineers and he stood out and finished 3rd in the championship.

In to this competitive environment, for Kvyat to come in a for a few races, grab poles and win a race against Marciello and Rosenqvist was incredible. It showed how he was able to learn and quickly adapt to a car, and a series that he was not familiar with, and win.

But I don't doubt that the fact that he is also a Russian helped STR's decision. The commercial aspect is part of racing.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:39 AM   #1359
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rumor: Williams signed Massa for five years, Maldonado leaving Williams

http://www.diariomotorsport.com.br/2...liams-em-2014/

Quote:
EXCLUSIVO: Felipe Massa correrá na Williams em 2014 no lugar de Pastor Maldonado
23 outubro 2013, 8:47 pm 9 comentários 4.133 views

Por Americo Teixeira Jr. – O brasileiro Felipe Massa será piloto da equipe Williams de Fórmula 1 a partir de 2014. O acordo será divulgado nas próximos dias – ou horas – e o Diário Motorsport pode afirmar que o contrato é de cinco anos e Massa receberá salários, estando descartada a necessidade de levar recursos para a equipe inglesa. O vice-campeão mundial de 2008 correrá no lugar do venezuelano Pastor Maldonado, que deixará o time inglês ao cabo a atual temporada.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:51 AM   #1360
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Originally Posted by OnTheGas View Post
But I don't doubt that the fact that he is also a Russian helped STR's decision. The commercial aspect is part of racing.
Absolutely.. At the expense of another young promissing driver, that has nothing but terrific (specially since he joined Red Bull Junior Team midway through last year).
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:38 AM   #1361
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Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
rumor: Williams signed Massa for five years, Maldonado leaving Williams

http://www.diariomotorsport.com.br/2...liams-em-2014/


So much for not returning to F1 unless he is in a contending car.
Williams must be getting a ton of that Brazilian money.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:03 AM   #1362
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Originally Posted by JRodrigues View Post
Absolutely.. At the expense of another young promissing driver, that has nothing but terrific (specially since he joined Red Bull Junior Team midway through last year).
Get over it. Sheesh.

There wasn't this much uproar when Sauber announced they were signing that 17 year old. Why does anyone care so much about who the #2 is at STR? Was da Costa the next racing Jesus or something? Ppl that know far more than us didn't think so.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:05 AM   #1363
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Originally Posted by MrH View Post
So much for not returning to F1 unless he is in a contending car.
Williams must be getting a ton of that Brazilian money.
Massa must think a lot like Rubens. Years in a top car to prove himself, then off to the back of the grid for a few more fruitless years. Hell, not a bad gig if you can get is I suppose.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:54 PM   #1364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheGas View Post
Thank you for posting that article. (Till last year, I had a subscription to Autosport and I do miss their analysis articles.)

The response seen here in this forum to STR choosing Kvyat for 2014 was pretty interesting.

I've been following Euro F3 for a few seasons now because if one examines the current grid of F1, many of them came out of Euro F3, or British F3. Currently, 16 of the 22 F1 drivers came through F3, and the majority via Euro F3:
  1. Vettel - Euro F3
  2. Hamilton - Euro & Brit F3
  3. Webber - Brit F3
  4. Rosberg - Euro F3
  5. Grosjean - Euro & Brit (1 meeting) F3
  6. Button - Brit F3
  7. Hulkenberg - Euro F3
  8. di Resta - Euro F3
  9. Perez - Brit F3
  10. Ricciardo - Euro & Brit F3
  11. Vergne - Brit F3
  12. Gutierrez - Euro F3
  13. Bottas - Euro & Brit F3
  14. Bianchi - Euro F3
  15. van der Garde - Euro F3
  16. Chilton - Brit F3

This season Euro F3 is much easier to follow. All the races are available on Youtube to watch for free, as well as brief race summary videos as well. Candidly, I tend to follow it via print, (news articles and twitter), versus video however.

Back on topic, this season in Euro F3 has seen some good talent rise to the top. In particular, there is a kid named Raffaele Marciello who won the championship after finishing 3rd last season. Initially, he fought against another strong talent named Pascal Wehrlein. But Wehrlein picked up a DTM ride for this season and so only raced the first meeting of this F3 season (which = 3 races). There is an amazing kid named Felix Rosenqvist who really stood out, and finished 2nd in points this season. There is a young brit named Alex Lynn who purposely chose Euro F3 to learn how to work with European engineers and he stood out and finished 3rd in the championship.

In to this competitive environment, for Kvyat to come in a for a few races, grab poles and win a race against Marciello and Rosenqvist was incredible. It showed how he was able to learn and quickly adapt to a car, and a series that he was not familiar with, and win.

But I don't doubt that the fact that he is also a Russian helped STR's decision. The commercial aspect is part of racing.

But how many of those guys jumped straight from F3 to F1? No one is saying F3 is a bad series, it's just a lower step on the ladder to F1
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:25 PM   #1365
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Apart from Raikkonen I can't think of any other driver that has jumped into F1 so quickly. But Raikkonen is a complete anomaly/freak who most teams/drivers/FIA didn't want to let race at first. So it's possible this kid could be like that, but I doubt it.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:18 PM   #1366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
Apart from Raikkonen I can't think of any other driver that has jumped into F1 so quickly. But Raikkonen is a complete anomaly/freak who most teams/drivers/FIA didn't want to let race at first. So it's possible this kid could be like that, but I doubt it.
Man I remember I had no idea who he was but I was oddly excited at the idea of having him race in a Sauber in Australia 2001.



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Old 10-24-2013, 07:53 PM   #1367
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
Man I remember I had no idea who he was but I was oddly excited at the idea of having him race in a Sauber in Australia 2001.
It was crazy how fast he got up to speed, and how fast Ron Dennis snatched him up
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:00 PM   #1368
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Question Two Different Ways To Groom A Young F1 Driver

I think it is a great question, is Kvyat too inexperienced for F1?

There was an interesting Reuters article today from the F1 paddock with some good answers.

Perhaps, not surprisingly, two McLaren drivers (one current and one former) seemed to both agree that the jump from F3 to F1 is likely to be overwhelming:

Quote:
"Of course he is thinking it is a great break and he is going to race in F1 but if you could have the choice of entering F1 at 19 after a year in F3 and GP3, or doing a couple of years in a different category, you would definitely go for a couple more years," said 2009 world champion Jenson Button.

"That way you could learn a lot more about slicks and wings... and learn a lot more of the circuits you race on, and the way an F1 team goes racing," added the McLaren driver, who made his debut with Williams in 2000 as a 20-year-old.

"There is so much to learn that I didn't understand when I came into the sport and it is a real shock for someone at 19, who has to also learn to drive an F1 car and have to work with a KERS (energy recovery) power unit, which is completely new and alien to most of us."
Quote:
Lewis Hamilton, the 2008 world champion for McLaren and now at Mercedes... "Kimi (Raikkonen, the 2007 champion with Ferrari) came from Formula Renault," he said. "We haven't got any other Kimis out there but Kimi showed that it is possible.

"I won everything on the way up and even when I was in Formula Three I wasn't ready for Formula One. I was only just ready after I won GP2. But everyone's different. It's a big ask for anyone that comes into Formula One."
Hamilton was 20 win he graduated from F3 to GP2. Button was 20 and the youngest Brit to have started an F1 race his rookie year.

Ferrari's opinion is not stated in the article, but note that this year's winner of the Euro F3 championship "Lello" Raffaele Marciello, a member of Ferrari's Driver Academy program went straight in to testing for two different WSR (World Series by Renault) teams to line up his 2014 ride two days after he won the Euro F3 title (earlier this week). Lello was never part of any F1 paddock rumor for a seat. Another important member of the Ferrari Driver Academy is Jules Bianchi, who did two seasons of GP2, then 1 season of WSR, after he had won the Euro F3 championship. A recent member of the FDA, Sergio Perez, did 2 seasons of GP2 after British F3. It appears that Ferrari are conservative in how they groom their young drivers.

Button described the underlying reasons best for this conservative methodology, "...you could learn a lot more about slicks and wings... and learn a lot more of the circuits you race on, and the way an F1 team goes racing... it is a real shock for someone at 19, who has to also learn to drive an F1 car and have to work with a KERS (energy recovery) power unit, which is completely new and alien to most of us."

So what would be the reason why Helmut Marko and Red Bull would opt to toss a 19yo with only GP3 and F3 experience now in to the high pressure, huge learning curve world of F1? In an article by Pablo Elizade of Autosport, Helmut Marko said:
Quote:
"...We were looking at what's best for Red Bull and what's best for Toro Rosso in the medium term.

"All the people who have been involved in this decision said Daniil was the right candidate.

"Through his performances, he was a natural candidate, being fast, being mature. So in the medium term he offers the best perspectives."
In an analysis by Will Gray, he noted the following about how Kvyat and Da Costa each fit in to RB's driver program:
Quote:
With Vettel, aged 26, in place until 2016 and Ricciardo and Vergne next in line, they already have a good selection for the foreseeable future...

Ricciardo was born on July 1 1989 and Vergne on April 25, 1990. Felix Da Costa, born Aug 31 1991, is in a similar age range whereas Kvyat, who was born Apr 26 1994, is effectively a half generation behind.
Perhaps, then, even if it takes a while, using the Toro Rosso spot to nurture Kvyat as a star for the next era could be a very clever move...
What is significant is Marko using the phrase "medium term" twice in describing why they moved Kvyat up so quickly. I take that phrase to mean approximately two full seasons.

We see two different ways to help an inexperienced driver adjust to being an F1 driver... Two to three seasons in WSR or GP2 (the McLaren & Ferrari way), or (the Red Bull way) toss them into the deep end and give them two to three seasons in a (lessor) F1 car.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:13 PM   #1369
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At the Track The Massa / Williams Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
rumor: Williams signed Massa for five years, Maldonado leaving Williams

http://www.diariomotorsport.com.br/2...liams-em-2014/
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrH View Post
So much for not returning to F1 unless he is in a contending car.
Williams must be getting a ton of that Brazilian money.
I'm glad his "contending car" comment is remembered! It was a little bit sad to hear Massa say that back then... We should note that both Williams and Massa have said that they're only talking now.

Massa has a very good manager, (Nicolas Todt). Also, it's been rumored that Bernie / FOM are very keen to have a Brazilian driver on the grid next season, and Massa is the only Brazilian. This gives Massa and Todt an advantage in being able to grab any sponsors who are interested in the Brazilian market. There are also rumors that FOM / Bernie can make it profitable for a team to employ Massa as driver, (not sure if there's any truth to that).

The reality of the 2014 driver market is that Massa is fortunate that Venezuela's political / economic changes are likely to drop Maldonado out of Williams which enables its availability to Massa.

If we look at better seats than Williams for Massa, here is what we find:
  • Sauber - 1 or 2 seats available (today's rumor is the oligarch's kid's sponsors are slow with their rubles, so Friday testing only, but Vitaly Petrov can bring 30m euros from Gazprom to get in to that seat). In any case, they need the fastest willing driver available for that other seat. Between Gutierrez and Massa, they'd likely choose Gutierrez, or someone faster. (Because of Sauber's poverty, Massa has a small chance.)
  • Lotus - If these guys can find some money (they're broke, and they're pending deal has been all talk, talk, talk), then there is one seat alongside Grosjean. If they get their money, they want the fastest driver… If no money, then Massa may have a chance if he can bring Brazilian sponsors.
  • Force India - They only want the fastest drivers, but unfortunately they're not smart enough to make up their minds prior to Christmas. There will likely be drivers who are faster than Massa available then. (Perhaps I'm harsh… he has a small chance here.)
That is the middle of the grid: 3 teams with 4 to 5 seats. Yet, two of those teams are interested in only fast drivers, no money required (Lotus and FIF1), and the competition for the Sauber will be difficult as well. Every team knows what an underperforming Massa looks like. Since his team-mate is one of the best drivers, poor performances by Massa created high contrast situations that were unattractive.

That leaves the back of the grid, which this season includes (sadly) Williams. But Williams are decent sized, and picked up Pat Symonds at Tech Director. (Nowhere to go but up!)

Marussia will run a Ferrari engine, but one can imagine that Massa may choose to race outside of F1 before filling a Marussia or Caterham seat.

One very interesting additional note is that Nicolas Todt is also Pastor Maldonado's manager. The Williams team let loose with some unattributed but nasty comments about Maldonado after Suzuka. So the cynic would note that the trip to Venezuela by Claire Williams and lawyers must have been educational. If I bet money, I'd bet a dollar that Maldonado won't be at Williams in 2014. But he might end up (poor but fast) at Force India instead. Note that James Calado is doing another FP1 here at India for FIF1 in di Resta's seat, and that Calado is managed by Todt also.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:39 PM   #1370
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Nice post, thanks.

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Old 10-24-2013, 10:32 PM   #1371
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Massa has something like 6 or 7m in brazilian sponsorship lined up.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:52 PM   #1372
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News Maldonado's Wanderings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheGas View Post
...Lotus - If these guys can find some money (they're broke, and they're pending deal has been all talk, talk, talk), then there is one seat alongside Grosjean. If they get their money, they want the fastest driver… If no money, then Massa may have a chance if he can bring Brazilian sponsors...
Today Will Buxton tweeted that Lotus is NOT interested in Massa.

Instead, Eric Boullier has presented three other drivers for 2014 to his board. They are Grosjean, Hulkenberg, and if they can't get Hulkenberg, then Maldonado.

Maldonado is quick. Perhaps he would carry the big PDVSA dollars with him (which Lotus would need if the Quantum money fails to show).
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:04 PM   #1373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
It was crazy how fast he got up to speed, and how fast Ron Dennis snatched him up
Was it? There was a ridiculous amount of testing and there wasa lot of things shared between Ferrari and Sauber then that can't happen now.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:12 PM   #1374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d3v0 View Post
This is beyond comprehension. Sometimes, I hate this sport.

Using someones nationality as a reason for giving them a seat (imagine all the boring reporters questions next year "so, how do you feel about comments that you are only driving in F1 because of the Russian GP?" but they could have at least given an American a seat, since we already have one F1 race and uhh, are going to have two (hopefully?).

That said, its a huge disappointment. Da Costa, Sainz Jr, Frijns, all huge talents that need a seat. And this fool gets one. Ive literally never heard of him.
Lol, it's too early for him to be in F1 but he is a massive talent. Cool the jets.

Last edited by ptclaus98; 10-25-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #1375
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Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
Was it? There was a ridiculous amount of testing and there wasa lot of things shared between Ferrari and Sauber then that can't happen now.
They had testing. But he had only 23 car races under his belt.............that's CRAZY.
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