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Old 02-19-2013, 11:33 AM   #101
chanomatik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I'd gladly pay $32k for a BRZ with a next-gen 3.0 DI H6 (N/A) making ~280hp with a comparable weight balance (battery in the trunk?)



Sky, a lot of the leadfoots on NASIOC are claiming an average higher than the EPA rating... so I'd say fuel mileage is very good for a car of this type.. particularly one with 4.1:1 gears. My MCS does better, but it's a 1.6L and weighs 200lbs less.
With some hooning and 90 Octane gas, I get about 22.2 MPG city. The other BRZ owners around Anchorage that drive way more conservatively than I do get around 24-25 MPG city. On the highway a few months ago I was getting 35 MPG with studded snow tires.

I think these cars are excellent advocates for drop tops.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #102
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I get 33MPG highway. 21.2MPG city/stuck in rush hour traffic.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:00 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
Thanks for sharing.




You know that info is available on the internet, right?

http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/brz/20...html?sub=coupe

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/subaru/brz-pricing/

I know you are a car salesman and touting the company line, but this info is easily found.

I also think that pdf was posted on ft86club back last year.

Neither of those showed everything in his post. What I was refering to anyway was copying and posting SOA material. Is that not proprietary? Have others not had their posts deleted over similar things before?
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #104
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I'm averaging 30 without trying. On an all highway tank if I can resist the urge to squeeze the skinny pedal I have gotten 34, and I could probably get more (damn skinny pedal and my lack of self control). My worst tank was 23.5 including an autox.

You can read all about it here
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/spaceywilly/brz
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:49 PM   #105
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If they designed the car to also be a convertable, I would consider that to be part of the "central concept". You said it also. None of these things are "needed". They are wants by the customers. The only thing anyone would "need" is a car with 4 wheels that will get them to their destination. Anything else is a want.
Except that the number of people asking for a convertible up to this point has been very muted in comparison to people hoping for upgrades to the performance. I understand the reasoning for choosing the convertible option (more sales to different demographics), but the philosophy behind the original concept wasn't to appeal to the masses, but to the enthusiasts. It is kind of funny to watch some people change their tune as soon as a "Spy Photo" is captured from "Could use more X" to "Convertible is what we wanted all Along!". Just a little too much kool-aid.

I'm not going to dispute that the convertible will sell, or that it may even really mainstream the model. But part of me doesn't think going mainstream is a good direction to go with a niche model. It screams corporate to me. But don't get me wrong - still a fan of this car
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:03 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post

Except that the number of people asking for a convertible up to this point has been very muted in comparison to people hoping for upgrades to the performance. I understand the reasoning for choosing the convertible option (more sales to different demographics), but the philosophy behind the original concept wasn't to appeal to the masses, but to the enthusiasts. It is kind of funny to watch some people change their tune as soon as a "Spy Photo" is captured from "Could use more X" to "Convertible is what we wanted all Along!". Just a little too much kool-aid.

I'm not going to dispute that the convertible will sell, or that it may even really mainstream the model. But part of me doesn't think going mainstream is a good direction to go with a niche model. It screams corporate to me. But don't get me wrong - still a fan of this car
Good post.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:09 PM   #107
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Scion/Toyota wanted a convertible version.. this was in the plans from very early on according to press releases in the twins development threads.

I'm just glad they decided to build the hardtop first.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by ToneWrx02 View Post
You know we have a vender that turbo charged the brz.. Its easily and safely making 450plus whp. Also i believe reving to 8-9k rpm. I double check
Like I said earlier, I'd love to see how driveable that car is on the street and it's long term viability. Making a few drag strip runs isn't impressing me.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:30 PM   #109
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^ Crawford's BRZ engine just went at Buttonwillow.

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Quirt Crawford
Popped my motor today at Buttonwillow, should have it apart tomorrow so I can share what happened. Thinking there was a valve train failure...
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #110
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There's obviously a middle ground between 175hp and 450hp. Wanting more power than stock doesn't mean you want some ridiculous beast, as the "You just don't get this car" pontificating crowd likes to insinuate. 250hp at the wheels would be fantastic. If it takes an H6 to do it, whatever.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #111
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I'd be happy with 200WHP. It's already punchy at about 164WHP.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
There's obviously a middle ground between 175hp and 450hp. Wanting more power than stock doesn't mean you want some ridiculous beast, as the "You just don't get this car" pontificating crowd likes to insinuate. 250hp at the wheels would be fantastic. If it takes an H6 to do it, whatever.
I agree for the most part, and even Clarkson said something to that effect last night on TG. 450 hp is ridiculous, but this car would be much (more) fun with another 50-60 hp or so. Hopefully, the aftermarket can make this happen.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by manticus View Post
Except that the number of people asking for a convertible up to this point has been very muted in comparison to people hoping for upgrades to the performance. I understand the reasoning for choosing the convertible option (more sales to different demographics), but the philosophy behind the original concept wasn't to appeal to the masses, but to the enthusiasts. It is kind of funny to watch some people change their tune as soon as a "Spy Photo" is captured from "Could use more X" to "Convertible is what we wanted all Along!". Just a little too much kool-aid.

I'm not going to dispute that the convertible will sell, or that it may even really mainstream the model. But part of me doesn't think going mainstream is a good direction to go with a niche model. It screams corporate to me. But don't get me wrong - still a fan of this car
There didn't have to be people "asking for a convertible". Why would someone constantly whine for something that you know is coming anyways?

As I and others have said, it's no secret this car was made to be a convertible. They happened to release the hard-top 1st.

Any people that wanted the convertible, being rather educated in the subject of buying new cars, sat back and just watched everything unfold as they released the hardtop, knowing full well that the convertible is just around the corner when sales more than surpassed anticipation. Only an idiot would by a new car, only have to trade it in or sell it to get the convertible and take the hit on depreciation.

There didn't have to be constant reminders about not having one yet... because it was in the cards anyways.... just a matter of time.

There is no kool-aid here, brah. Just the educated and patient.

--kC
(FYI: I have been saying I'm waiting for the convertible since day one... just not as much as Hip2BS posted about the demise of Subaru for having a RWD, and being proven, without the shadow of a doubt, tragically incorrect in his assessment.)
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:01 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
Except that the number of people asking for a convertible up to this point has been very muted in comparison to people hoping for upgrades to the performance. I understand the reasoning for choosing the convertible option (more sales to different demographics), but the philosophy behind the original concept wasn't to appeal to the masses, but to the enthusiasts. It is kind of funny to watch some people change their tune as soon as a "Spy Photo" is captured from "Could use more X" to "Convertible is what we wanted all Along!". Just a little too much kool-aid.

I'm not going to dispute that the convertible will sell, or that it may even really mainstream the model. But part of me doesn't think going mainstream is a good direction to go with a niche model. It screams corporate to me. But don't get me wrong - still a fan of this car
I wouldn't say it was developed to bring the enthusiasts, it was to generate some excitement for the brand (toyota that is) that would draw younger drivers. A convertible version of a car that is designed from the ground to draw younger drivers will draw an additional demographic of younger drivers (women) whose current options of a fun youthful convertible experience are a camaro convertible, a mustang convertible, or a mazda mx5.

That doesn't change the fact that I want to pay my dealer anywhere from 30-32k for a BRZ that has more torque from the factory.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I'd be happy with 200WHP. It's already punchy at about 164WHP.
Woops, I meant to say that. Closer to 250 at the crank, 250 at the wheels isn't going to happen. So yes, about 200 wheel.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:15 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Woops, I meant to say that. Closer to 250 at the crank, 250 at the wheels isn't going to happen. So yes, about 200 wheel.
haha I thought you might have meant that, and I agree!
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
I wouldn't say it was developed to bring the enthusiasts, it was to generate some excitement for the brand (toyota that is) that would draw younger drivers. A convertible version of a car that is designed from the ground to draw younger drivers will draw an additional demographic of younger drivers (women) whose current options of a fun youthful convertible experience are a camaro convertible, a mustang convertible, or a mazda mx5.
***********
That doesn't change the fact that I want to pay my dealer anywhere from 30-32k for a BRZ that has more torque from the factory.
Hmm....Interesting. I haven't paid attentiont to Toyota's target market. Subaru's is the 35-55 age group.

I have also always thought that convertibles were targeted at that same market. I can't even remember the last time I saw a "young" person owning, or even driving a convertible.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:58 PM   #118
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They must be looking for a wider market, maybe sales are slowing...which will result in a more mainstream car.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:31 PM   #119
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Except that the number of people asking for a convertible up to this point has been very muted in comparison to people hoping for upgrades to the performance. I understand the reasoning for choosing the convertible option (more sales to different demographics), but the philosophy behind the original concept wasn't to appeal to the masses, but to the enthusiasts. It is kind of funny to watch some people change their tune as soon as a "Spy Photo" is captured from "Could use more X" to "Convertible is what we wanted all Along!". Just a little too much kool-aid.

I'm not going to dispute that the convertible will sell, or that it may even really mainstream the model. But part of me doesn't think going mainstream is a good direction to go with a niche model. It screams corporate to me. But don't get me wrong - still a fan of this car
Hey whad'ya know... Someone who's not drinking the kool-aid on this site... Good to know im on the same page w/ someone here. Geez...never thought I'd get a lashing on an "enthusiast" site for wanting a little more horsepower... Dont piss off the loyal pawns.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:49 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I can't even remember the last time I saw a "young" person owning, or even driving a convertible.
Hint:



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Old 02-20-2013, 01:30 AM   #121
manticus
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
There didn't have to be people "asking for a convertible". Why would someone constantly whine for something that you know is coming anyways?

As I and others have said, it's no secret this car was made to be a convertible. They happened to release the hard-top 1st.

Any people that wanted the convertible, being rather educated in the subject of buying new cars, sat back and just watched everything unfold as they released the hardtop, knowing full well that the convertible is just around the corner when sales more than surpassed anticipation. Only an idiot would by a new car, only have to trade it in or sell it to get the convertible and take the hit on depreciation.

There didn't have to be constant reminders about not having one yet... because it was in the cards anyways.... just a matter of time.

There is no kool-aid here, brah. Just the educated and patient.

--kC
(FYI: I have been saying I'm waiting for the convertible since day one... just not as much as Hip2BS posted about the demise of Subaru for having a RWD, and being proven, without the shadow of a doubt, tragically incorrect in his assessment.)
Ugh, I didn't mean to generalize as much as I did, no need for "Brah".

Maybe we can make this productive: what does a convertible bring to the table that the hardtop doesn't already? What does the hardtop do that the convertible doesn't? Does anyone know why the original concept called for a convertible-ready chassis?

What happens if the convertible option reduces the car to two seats and adds 200 lbs?

Last edited by manticus; 02-20-2013 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:54 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by manticus View Post
Ugh, I didn't mean to generalize as much as I did, no need for "Brah".
It's a brah's move to label others for "drinking kool-aid", brah.

Quote:
Maybe we can make this productive: what does a convertible bring to the table that the hardtop doesn't already?
The top. It goes down. You can drive it sans top. Almost the complete interior can be exposed to the sky, the sun, the ... you get the picture.

Quote:
What does the hardtop do that the convertible doesn't?
I'll go out on a limb here and say... the hardtop does nothing the convertible wouldn't do other than add slightly stiffer torsienal rigidity due to being a fixed roof.

Quote:
Does anyone know why the original concept called for a convertible-ready chassis?
Because it did? Only the engineers know "why", but the secret wasn't well kept that it "was".

Quote:
What happens if the convertible option reduces the car to two seats and adds 200 lbs?
Then it's slightly heavier and has 2 less seats. Also see: Miata, Fiat, 370Z, S2000, etc... That said, it would put the weight towards the back over the rear wheels turning it from 47/53 weight distribution to closer to 50/50.

However, I beleive there's going to be more magic here in that it may not add 200 lbs. More than likely more than the current hard top, but less than 200.

--kC
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:18 AM   #123
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I'm not a convertible guy, but damn, how hard is it to see that Toyota wants to make a convertible for the many people who like convertibles? This in turn will make them money that they aren't currently making. The coupe will still exist, as it did previously. How can this possibly be controversial? See the R&T's definition of a sports car, it still fits anyhow:

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:36 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Hmm....Interesting. I haven't paid attentiont to Toyota's target market. Subaru's is the 35-55 age group.

I have also always thought that convertibles were targeted at that same market. I can't even remember the last time I saw a "young" person owning, or even driving a convertible.
I think it's a requirement for women in a sorority (or who aspire to be in one) to own a convertible.

It's the same thing with strippers and Nissan Z convertibles, part of the benefit of joining the stripper union is you get a 350/370z convertible.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:38 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
I think it's a requirement for women in a sorority (or who aspire to be in one) to own a convertible.

It's the same thing with strippers and Nissan Z convertibles, part of the benefit of joining the stripper union is you get a 350/370z convertible.
I demand pictures of strippers in convertibles this instant.
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