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Old 02-22-2013, 11:10 AM   #26
1wrxtra
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pics of said racecar?

Also, what made you decide to go with the 65mm kstech instead of the 73mm? Not questioning your judgement, you clearly have infinitely more tuning experience than I do, I am just curious.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:18 AM   #27
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Photo courtesy of Eddy Savage

I went with the 65mm intake because I'll never need more maf range than that, and if I did I'd likely have switch to a rotated setup. There's a few things I dont like about the KStech. Its hard to make it fit inside the bumper, and the elbow for the filter is the same size no matter what maf tube you get so that elbow on mine is the same massive diameter as the 80something mm intake. Its redeaming quaility is that I feel confident recommending that you could drive on it and even use full throttle untuned its just rich pretty much everywhere, at least everywhere you can get to with a td04. I dont know if this is true for any of the newer cars.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:38 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Ok, not on my setup with the stock boost controller.
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Not on the stock boost controller.
Really? People need to stop spreading lies on the stock bcs. I've run up to 32 psi on the stock bcs. On the TD04, I've had it cranked up to 23 psi. Nothing wrong with it. Not suggesting you do it, just that the system is capable.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:42 AM   #29
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Hey I tried it. And on my setup, with 80% duty cycle and 23psi commanded it still only hits 18. Maybe my wastegate spring is weak, maybe my restrictor pill was on the bigger side of the tolerance, maybe my 100k mile td04 is dying, maybe its the 2.5" exhaust. And I know the noid is physically capable of running that high, I just couldn't force mine to do it.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Hey I tried it. And on my setup, with 80% duty cycle and 23psi commanded it still only hits 18. Maybe my wastegate spring is weak, maybe my restrictor pill was on the bigger side of the tolerance, maybe my 100k mile td04 is dying, maybe its the 2.5" exhaust. And I know the noid is physically capable of running that high, I just couldn't force mine to do it.
If you get a Grimspeed or GM 3-Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid with a Manual Boost Controller and you should be able to see over 20 psi with 100% WGDC across the entire map. Tune in your max boost with the MBC to prevent spiking/creeping/fluttering at full boost. With this setup I was able to achieve 25 psi on a VF39. I could have ran more psi but I was not seeing any real gains above 25 psi. Will be giving this same setup a try on my td04 shortly.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:43 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disque71 View Post
If you get a Grimspeed or GM 3-Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid with a Manual Boost Controller and you should be able to see over 20 psi with 100% WGDC across the entire map. Tune in your max boost with the MBC to prevent spiking/creeping/fluttering at full boost. With this setup I was able to achieve 25 psi on a VF39. I could have ran more psi but I was not seeing any real gains above 25 psi. Will be giving this same setup a try on my td04 shortly.
There is no way a td04 is going to hold 20 to redline. It will certainly spike over 20 though. I hit 21psi, for about 200rpms.


25psi on a vf39 is getting it. I'm impressed you saw gains with it that high!
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:58 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disque71 View Post

If you get a Grimspeed or GM 3-Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid with a Manual Boost Controller and you should be able to see over 20 psi with 100% WGDC across the entire map. Tune in your max boost with the MBC to prevent spiking/creeping/fluttering at full boost. With this setup I was able to achieve 25 psi on a VF39. I could have ran more psi but I was not seeing any real gains above 25 psi. Will be giving this same setup a try on my td04 shortly.
25psi til what rpm? Tdo4 will not hold 20psi at redline.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:13 AM   #33
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Definitely great numbers for a TD04 on a mustang. It would be great to see a baseline for that dyno or the car on a dynojet just for a little added perspective. congrats on those numbers.

At a high level i have a pretty similar setup. Stock BCS, similar mods, ~10.8 target AFR, similar boost targets and taper. The tune was done in 08 on an AP v1 though before i owned the car, i assume there is a little left on the table and anecdotally have had a couple tuners indicate the same. I'll probably revisit the tune in the spring. Anyway, in current form the car did 200whp/265wtq on Boxer4Racing's mustang (2000ft elevation ), and 238/311 on Mach V's dynojet.

I for one love the TD04 for a DD. It's like getting kicked in the chest by a mule at 2900 RPM, i would have a hard time loosing that feeling going to a bigger turbo even if power across the rest of the range improves- i just wouldn't be using it as often.

Last edited by mechatricity; 02-27-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:36 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Hey I tried it. And on my setup, with 80% duty cycle and 23psi commanded it still only hits 18. Maybe my wastegate spring is weak, maybe my restrictor pill was on the bigger side of the tolerance, maybe my 100k mile td04 is dying, maybe its the 2.5" exhaust. And I know the noid is physically capable of running that high, I just couldn't force mine to do it.
You're at the limits of the 06/07 actuator. Upgrade to the 02-05 TD04 2.0L actuator and you'll get there. Rule of thumb is that you can't boost more than twice your actuator setting. At 18 psi, you are near triple it.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:54 PM   #35
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25psi til what rpm? Tdo4 will not hold 20psi at redline.
Not exactly sure yet of the td04 mechanics as I went straight to the Vf39. It will be interesting to see how much boost the internal td04 wastegate can hold. I may need to lock the actuator shut This will be my dry run on the EJ255 for an inevitable 20g.

FYI -- http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/2012/07/...egate-bracket/

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Old 02-27-2013, 03:01 PM   #36
thefoos
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^If you don't have an EWG, that's a great way to overspeed the shaft and turn your bearings into a pile of molten crap.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:02 PM   #37
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The compressor on the td04-13t could hit 30psi. It wont though, not possible on our engines as it would need to happen around 2800 rpm. I would think locked shut it could do ~26 psi at ~3000 rpm.

Though you have the td04-19t which might reasonably be able to hit 30psi at ~4k rpm if you can muster up enough turbine shaft power and give it enough time (ie a 4th or 5th gear pull).

This entire idea is retarded.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
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The compressor on the td04-13t could hit 30psi. It wont though, not possible on our engines as it would need to happen around 2800 rpm. I would think locked shut it could do ~26 psi at ~3000 rpm.

Though you have the td04-19t which might reasonably be able to hit 30psi at ~4k rpm if you can muster up enough turbine shaft power and give it enough time (ie a 4th or 5th gear pull).

This entire idea is retarded.
Yeah buddy....this is the idea. Most of the V8 community thinks we are retarded for trying to squeeze the amount of efficiency we do out of these little horizontal four cylinder engines. It truly is dangerous but this is the best way to learn the mechanical dynamics of the engine and its tune.

First through third should see a reasonable amount of boost control at the limits(max throttle and full load). Fourth and fifth would be where the whp magic happens or the turbo turns purple and the little td04-19t implodes on itself. AVCS among other things will need to be considered as I move into the 32bit realm. Again, this is only an approximation and the incremental tunes to get from 20 to 25 psi would tell the tale if its mechanically possible or not. 32bit ftw? I guess we will see.

Although retarded, it is better to figure this stuff before you slap on a big turbo and flash whatever map is on hand, which frighteningly many people on NASIOC seem to do.

The big misconception in the community is that people try to create tune around their build instead of creating a build around their tune.

To the OP: Have you maxed out your injectors or fuel pump yet? If not, then your td04 isn't too small...
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:32 AM   #39
thefoos
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The big misconception in the community is that people try to create tune around their build instead of creating a build around their tune.
This is completely off topic, and you are wrong.

A "tune" is to make what you have work in harmony, hence the term, borrowed from the music world. I'll agree that you need to "match" parts for best performance. Also, in the tuning process, you might find parts that aren't going to play well together, or parts that are limiting you. Its a sequential process though. All the tune does is make the parts play nice together.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:53 AM   #40
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The big misconception in the community is that people try to create tune around their build instead of creating a build around their tune.
How do u create a tune for a 35R while using a tdo4/vf and stock exhaust and stock 440cc or pinks when u plan to install 1000cc injectors and ewg for example.

I'm lost with that statement
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:20 AM   #41
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Well you start with a base tune set up for your build and then start dialing it in. Any injector data these days are pretty easy to come across to plug into the tune. The tuning process doesnt start until your build is complete and car is running. If thats what you are asking.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:30 AM   #42
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How do u create a tune for a 35R while using a tdo4/vf and stock exhaust and stock 440cc or pinks when u plan to install 1000cc injectors and ewg for example.

I'm lost with that statement
Since we have a maf setup, this is really easy as long as you dont change the intake tube. You'd install the injectors without installing anything else and get the latencys, dead time, and sizes set correctly. You would disable turbo dynamics by zeroing out its available corrections, set the WGDC tables to something conservative, and pull a bunch of timing over 1g/rev. Then you'd tune the wgdcs until that was working good, then bring turbo dynamics back in and have to completely redo most of that, and add spark till it knocks then back it down.

The only people who build a car to fit a tune are the sheepeople who run canned tunes.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:04 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by skatinboarding View Post
Well you start with a base tune set up for your build and then start dialing it in. Any injector data these days are pretty easy to come across to plug into the tune. The tuning process doesnt start until your build is complete and car is running. If thats what you are asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post

Since we have a maf setup, this is really easy as long as you dont change the intake tube. You'd install the injectors without installing anything else and get the latencys, dead time, and sizes set correctly. You would disable turbo dynamics by zeroing out its available corrections, set the WGDC tables to something conservative, and pull a bunch of timing over 1g/rev. Then you'd tune the wgdcs until that was working good, then bring turbo dynamics back in and have to completely redo most of that, and add spark till it knocks then back it down.

The only people who build a car to fit a tune are the sheepeople who run canned tunes.
Sounds like tuning around your build as opposed to building around your tune to me...
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:08 AM   #44
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This is what I and a few others have been doing for a few years thanks to phatron, works great, my motors been out for like a year and I forgot how your supposed to route it, mind sharing? I have a perrin 30r rotated kit, 2 nipples off my wastegate & I think something went into my turbo inlet,

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by disque71 View Post
If you get a Grimspeed or GM 3-Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid with a Manual Boost Controller and you should be able to see over 20 psi with 100% WGDC across the entire map. Tune in your max boost with the MBC to prevent spiking/creeping/fluttering at full boost. With this setup I was able to achieve 25 psi on a VF39. I could have ran more psi but I was not seeing any real gains above 25 psi. Will be giving this same setup a try on my td04 shortly.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:59 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton View Post
This is what I and a few others have been doing for a few years thanks to phatron, works great, my motors been out for like a year and I forgot how your supposed to route it, mind sharing? I have a perrin 30r rotated kit, 2 nipples off my wastegate & I think something went into my turbo inlet,

Thanks

Here are some posts to get you started:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602674

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=31549554

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=36729366

As you can see there is still quite the debate going on. I ran the setup in the first thread without an issue. I will try Grimspeed's recommended setup and if I am not satisfied I will try to experiment a bit more with the configurations mentioned in that thread.
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