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Old 02-28-2013, 07:56 PM   #26
Frank-i-e
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Originally Posted by endrswrd View Post
Did you reset your ECU after changing the inlet?
Yeah I did. The values went up to 7 something then started to drop pretty quickly after a drive and seemed to have leveled off at 4.7.

A was a small number
B was 0
C was 4.9
And D was at .something as well.

My DAM did not go up to 1, stayed at .5.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Frank-i-e View Post
Oh okay I see. Seems negligible.


So, I found that the turbo inlet pipe was cracked right before the turbo, right at the inducer. I replaced it with a silicone TIP by Perrin however my learning values seems to be even higher now. I looked around and it doesn't seem that you need a pro tune for a TIP unless changing the size of the MAF.

I'm still on the ACN91LWG map.
Multiple issues on an older car are not an impossibility. Have you changed out the MAF sensor or are you still running your friend's MAF sensor? I would definitely get a pressure or smoke test of the intake tract just to rule out other leaks and I would get the MAF sensor replaced as well since your previous test seemed to indicate that your sensor might have an issue.

Bill
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:55 AM   #28
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I haven't been able to use my friends since that one run since he left town. My learning values did stabilize.

What should the learning values be around at idle and then at cruising at partial throttle holding a certain speed? While I accelerate it goes to 0 every time. At idle it depends, sometimes 0 sometimes .8 and sometimes in the negatives.

Also, what is AF sensor 1 and what should those values be. This is a big learning curve from VW's. haha
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:11 AM   #29
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I haven't been able to use my friends since that one run since he left town. My learning values did stabilize.

What should the learning values be around at idle and then at cruising at partial throttle holding a certain speed? While I accelerate it goes to 0 every time. At idle it depends, sometimes 0 sometimes .8 and sometimes in the negatives.

Also, what is AF sensor 1 and what should those values be. This is a big learning curve from VW's. haha
There are 4 ranges to the A/F Learning 1 values -> we label them A,B,C,D. They are based on airflow (A lowest range, D highest), so if you are logging "A/F Learning 1", you are seeing the current one being applied. You can look at them individually by looking at each of the 4 A,B,C,D values. Generally speaking, each of the individual values should fall within about +/- 5%. If any one (or more) is well outside of that, then it could indicate a fueling issue.

A/F Sens 1 Ratio is the front o2 sensor reading. It is only really accurate at idle/cruise and low boost. At high load, it will usually peg at 11:1 which cannot be used to determine actual fueling.

Bill
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:42 AM   #30
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Oh okay, so there is no function to see if the 1st O2 is working the way it should.

Man, I wish I knew all about these values when I had my last STi. I'm curious to know what condition that was in haha.

So back to step 2, after maintenance. Pressure test/smoke test and throw on Grant's MAF to see if that helps me get to DAM of 1.0.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:44 PM   #31
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Oh okay, so there is no function to see if the 1st O2 is working the way it should.

Man, I wish I knew all about these values when I had my last STi. I'm curious to know what condition that was in haha.

So back to step 2, after maintenance. Pressure test/smoke test and throw on Grant's MAF to see if that helps me get to DAM of 1.0.
If you had an aftermarket wideband o2 sensor, you could compare its reading against the front o2 reading to verify that the front o2 was bad or not. It would also help in diagnosing other fueling issues. By itself, the wideband sensor is always a good investment (especially with in-car gauge) as it would allow you to verify that fueling looks good now and also to make sure it stays that way in the future.

Bill
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
If you had an aftermarket wideband o2 sensor, you could compare its reading against the front o2 reading to verify that the front o2 was bad or not. It would also help in diagnosing other fueling issues. By itself, the wideband sensor is always a good investment (especially with in-car gauge) as it would allow you to verify that fueling looks good now and also to make sure it stays that way in the future.

Bill
How do you compare the wideband o2 reading to the front o2 reading?
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:42 PM   #33
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How do you compare the wideband o2 reading to the front o2 reading?
You use the readings off of the gauge from the wide band to the readings you're getting off of the O2 through your AccessPORT.

I sold my whole AEM 3 gauge set up in the part out. Wish I still had them
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:12 AM   #34
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Alright, so I borrowed another friends MAF (yeah, we have a crazy amount of Subaru's here haha) and my AF learning 1 values were COMPLETELY different than previously.

My learning values at idle were +4.7% max but when going or at partial throttle maintaining a certain speed were always 0.0%

It was a little late so a lot of this was highway driving and some city but by the time I got him the values were still what I stated above.

The DAM went up to 1.0 finally as well.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:36 AM   #35
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Alright, so I borrowed another friends MAF (yeah, we have a crazy amount of Subaru's here haha) and my AF learning 1 values were COMPLETELY different than previously.

My learning values at idle were +4.7% max but when going or at partial throttle maintaining a certain speed were always 0.0%

It was a little late so a lot of this was highway driving and some city but by the time I got him the values were still what I stated above.

The DAM went up to 1.0 finally as well.
You should be looking at the individual A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D via live data (or you can even add them to the logs). That will show you all the stored values at once and this can be done without driving. When you are driving and looking at just "A/F Learning 1", you are simply going through the different ranges depending on the current airflow.

The A/F Learning 1 values will vary - that is normal. The idea here is just to make sure they stay within a "normal" range which is that each individual value is within about +/- 5% after a good bit of driving since the last reflash/reset.

Bill
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:38 AM   #36
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Oh okay, when my new MAF comes in I will drive it around a bit with the ACN91 and then I will log the values of A,B,C,D and see what you think. I was told it should ship out today.

Thanks for the help, Bill.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:48 PM   #37
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Alrighty! Put the new MAF sensor in on Thursday and have been driving around with it to let it adjust.

AF learning 1 at idle -3.1% and -2.3% depending on the AC but usually stays at -3.1%

A -2.9%
B -1.6%
C +1.2%
D 0.0%

DAM 1.0
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:23 PM   #38
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Those are healthy fuel trims. Seems like you got your leak taken care of.

Good job!
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:27 PM   #39
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The car has been running GREAT! Thanks for all the help Bill!

Only thing recently is that it doesn't idle too well. You can feel it stumble.

Idk if this could do with it but when I had AWD Tuning do my compression test none of the plugs were gapped right (.042 .038 .032 .040). I went in there to do a compression test and reset them all to .028 because it had been stumbling at idle and still is.

I'm not sure what it could be.

My AFR learning 1 stays at 0.0 when idling and going and sometime to .8/1.6 When I am engine breaking though it goes to -5.5

(At idle)
1 right now 1.6
A right now 1.3
B right now -5.4
C right now -1.6
D right now -.1

DAM 1.0

Idk what could be the issue honestly and I was hoping maybe I could get an idea as to what steps to take.

I hate sitting in the car and feel it stumble.

It's getting worse, I also filled up just now and still the same which should rule out 93. I got it at a gas station that goes through gas often too.

I'm sorry to bother Bill, Thanks!
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:42 PM   #40
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With the AC on and the RPM's raised a little it doesn't have the stumble.

There is absolutely zero cylinder roughness showing through the AP.

Seems like values are increasing in both directions. Still sort of normal. It ranges for AFR 1 -6.2 to +3.9 and once in a while goes to +5.5

Last edited by Frank-i-e; 03-13-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Frank-i-e View Post
The car has been running GREAT! Thanks for all the help Bill!

Only thing recently is that it doesn't idle too well. You can feel it stumble.

Idk if this could do with it but when I had AWD Tuning do my compression test none of the plugs were gapped right (.042 .038 .032 .040). I went in there to do a compression test and reset them all to .028 because it had been stumbling at idle and still is.

I'm not sure what it could be.

My AFR learning 1 stays at 0.0 when idling and going and sometime to .8/1.6 When I am engine breaking though it goes to -5.5

(At idle)
1 right now 1.6
A right now 1.3
B right now -5.4
C right now -1.6
D right now -.1

DAM 1.0

Idk what could be the issue honestly and I was hoping maybe I could get an idea as to what steps to take.

I hate sitting in the car and feel it stumble.

It's getting worse, I also filled up just now and still the same which should rule out 93. I got it at a gas station that goes through gas often too.

I'm sorry to bother Bill, Thanks!
Did you ever get a pressure or smoke test done? Idle issues can sometimes be attributed to leaks and it is not unheard of to have multiple problems with these older cars. Also, there is some idle learning that takes place which is cleared when you reflash a map or reset the ECU, but the idle should be getting better, not worse, since that time.

Bill
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:09 AM   #42
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Maybe your crank position sensor is on the fritz?

At idle there is very small range where there are no adjustments to timing to ensure idle is smooth. Look to see how much logged RPM jumps around both at idle and cruising at a steady speed on a nice flat section of highway. RPM is never "dead steady", but it is does not cost anything to take a good look a datalog or two for comparison. You want the highest logging rate you can get, so minimize how many parameters are selected. Just a thought.
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