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Old 03-01-2013, 10:35 AM   #1
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Default *New* Dogbox gearsets for the 5MT by EMCO Gears

Hello all,


I have been working with EMCO Gears on new development of a complete solution to replacing ALL the weak components in the Subaru 5MT


PRICING HAS BEEN POSTED


Cheers,

-Phil @ F4M



1500HP AWD Syncro'd Gears (I cannot divulge info unfortunately)






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Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 08-17-2013 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:53 AM   #2
Dutch Devotion
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Very nice sirs !

But how do you prevent the failure mechanism of the MT5 case to happen ?
To my experience, introducing hughe torque (600Nm+) on the std 5MT case will flex (torque) the case that much that the gears (also dog gears) will start walking on their toes, firstly causing pitting, and teeth failure in the end.

Pleased to hear, if you guys solved this problem there is a hughe market for you guys !

Cheers

Erik
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:56 AM   #3
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Phil, after our lengthy talk and feedback from Emco and their expert opinion on the case, you know where I stand. My coupe's six speed will be sold in a hurry.

-Micah
3MI Racing
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #4
shamrock 05
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I am no tranmisson guru....but if these can stand up to the abuse/affordable/and have good cust service. I would like to think that they would be a solid choice of gears.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #5
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion View Post
Very nice sirs !

But how do you prevent the failure mechanism of the MT5 case to happen ?
To my experience, introducing hughe torque (600Nm+) on the std 5MT case will flex (torque) the case that much that the gears (also dog gears) will start walking on their toes, firstly causing pitting, and teeth failure in the end.

Pleased to hear, if you guys solved this problem there is a hughe market for you guys !

Cheers

Erik
I was waiting for this question,

After extensive talks with both the owner John, who also is a M.E. and Anthony (one of their M.E's),

The issue is NOT the case but the design of the gears.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, so from how it was explained to me:

loading of the helical gears causes the shafts to come apart causing the gears to shear.

There's a lot more to it but, I won't get into that quite yet.

I will get a more detailed explanation from the M.E. and post up when he can respond in email form to me about the issue with the case. Remember, this is a complete redesign of all the major components in that case.

I have a busted gear set and a perfectly good complete 5MT (Legacy GT 4.11 final) at their facility now for them to measure center distances and start the whole engineering process.

-Phil

I assure you guys/gals that the issue with "case flex" if you want to call it that, will be addressed.

They have a transmission dyno at the facility we can rig up and run the gears through to test failure points if its a concern, but they felt that the main issue was the design of the gears.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:11 AM   #6
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Phil, after our lengthy talk and feedback from Emco and their expert opinion on the case, you know where I stand. My coupe's six speed will be sold in a hurry.

-Micah
3MI Racing
As is the 6 speed in my WRX


Going to make a POTENTIAL buyer list, Group buy will be setup after I get pricing set.

PM me or post up to get your name added to the list.


!.

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Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 03-12-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:11 AM   #7
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Hmmm I like my Version 8 6speed a lot, but this entrigues me, plus if Micah thinks it's a good idea, it's gotta be good
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:26 PM   #8
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There is a distinct possibility I would be in for this. Emco makes good stuff and have been around forever. Obviously, the actual changes inside besides the gearset design might be a limiting factor, as well as price (within reason).

Very interested to see what they can come up with.


Jay
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:20 PM   #9
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This sound very interesting as i am in the middle of my road race warrior build.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:28 PM   #10
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I'm just glad as I'd been searching for ANY OEM that would say yes to supporting the power levels in a 5-spd I'm talking in a raid race situation. Take your 9 second drag car and run laps at 2 G's...welcome to time attack

I'm hoping EMCO and I can afford the time to talk directly so that I can do my Greek (engiNERD) talk and convert it to English.

...types as I'm supposed to be taking the night off and relaxing at a local hockey goal a night off from cars
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:08 PM   #11
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Yes please! Oh please please!
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:18 PM   #12
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Interested as well
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:26 PM   #13
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If they need a tester i have a road course track nola speedway down the street from me i can go bet the hell out of it for them.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:02 PM   #14
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If the product would be as good/better than import gears such as PPG (and we don't have to deal with fluxuating exchange rates), it would be a welcome addition.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:45 AM   #15
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Yes very interested especially if they can be had more affordable than PPG or Albins since for motorsports use they will regular rebuild maintenance and the PPGs just are not affordable on budgeted am/grassroots racer level as assume 98% percent of us are.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:53 AM   #16
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skimobile View Post
If the product would be as good/better than import gears such as PPG (and we don't have to deal with fluxuating exchange rates), it would be a welcome addition.

PPG makes a great gearbox.

EMCO will make a FANTASTIC gearbox, there are no exchange rates as EVERY part that will be replaced, is made in Elk Grove Village, Illinois.

This new project is in all actuality, new design.

If you haven't checked out the thread in vendor announcements, go read and check out the thread. there is a lot of info there.

I'm trying to put Micah in touch with the M.E so he can decipher all the egiNerd language.

EMCO is extremely busy guys, they don't only make gears for race cars, they're involved in aerospace, industrial, and a few other industries.

With Grand-Am and Rolex series racing in full swing, they're are at every race on top of their regular work load, so please be patient.

I'm working directly with them so as soon as I have info I will post it up.

If you have a specific question that isn't answered in either thread, PM me.

I will do my best to get it over to EMCO.

I don't have ANY pricing yet. when I do, you guys will know.

-Phil @ F4M

Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 03-03-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:07 PM   #17
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Also how serviceable will the gear set be? Splined main shafts, easily replaceable gears ect?

Thanks.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:17 PM   #18
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteghost 2.5 View Post
Also how serviceable will the gear set be? Splined main shafts, easily replaceable gears ect?

Thanks.
Yes and yes.

I'm glad that people in this thread understand that race parts have to be serviced.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:17 PM   #19
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Depending on price, eta and which 5MT gearboxes these would be compatible with I'd be interested.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #20
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Definitely would be a nice option to go with, I've had 2 PPG boxes, and can't say anything bad about them, although exchange rates are a PITA, as well as back order etc through them.

This would be a great option, and hopefully pricing is affordable
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:37 PM   #21
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Def want something instead of doing six speed swap. Would this be ok for a daily driver?
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:36 PM   #22
skimobile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isshinryu28 View Post
Def want something instead of doing six speed swap. Would this be ok for a daily driver?
I would say this really depends on:
a) how you drive and if you're used to driving a dog-box setup, which is different than driving with a normal transmission with syncro's, etc.
b) how often you are willing to break down the transmission for inspection /. maintenance
If you want to just set it and forget it, I wouldn't go the dog-box route;
in that instance, aftermarket helical or straight cut gears might be more appropriate.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:00 PM   #23
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isshinryu28 View Post
Def want something instead of doing six speed swap. Would this be ok for a daily driver?
Go and read the thread in vendor announcements.

I have a thread for "daily driver" syncro'd sets.

This thread is purely for motorsport.

-Phil
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport

Yes and yes.

I'm glad that people in this thread understand that race parts have to be serviced.
Told you this was the right area for it
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post
I was waiting for this question,

After extensive talks with both the owner John, who also is a M.E. and Anthony (one of their M.E's),

The issue is NOT the case but the design of the gears.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, so from how it was explained to me:

loading of the helical gears causes the shafts to come apart causing the gears to shear.

There's a lot more to it but, I won't get into that quite yet.

I will get a more detailed explanation from the M.E. and post up when he can respond in email form to me about the issue with the case. Remember, this is a complete redesign of all the major components in that case.

I have a busted gear set and a perfectly good complete 5MT (Legacy GT 4.11 final) at their facility now for them to measure center distances and start the whole engineering process.

-Phil

I assure you guys/gals that the issue with "case flex" if you want to call it that, will be addressed.

They have a transmission dyno at the facility we can rig up and run the gears through to test failure points if its a concern, but they felt that the main issue was the design of the gears.
So you are saying that the gear design from PPG and Albins are bad?

I broke my Albins 5th gear and before I broke the other gears I sold my transmission I switch to a 2011 STi 6-speed. I really hate the extra weight and I would love better gearing. I also would love a transmission in which I cannot miss a shift .

If you guys can prove us that the EMCO dogbox is as strong and durable as a STi 6-speed I will sell my transmission right away.

Phil you should talk to EMCO about the the R160. Maybe they can do something to make stronger so we can keep our cars drivetrain as light as possible.

GL
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