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Old 03-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #26
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Told you this was the right area for it
I never doubted you Sir!


My six speed is up for sale if anyone wants it, oops wait wrong forum

'04 with A.P. Suretrac diffs, I'm keeping my R180

-Phil
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
So you are saying that the gear design from PPG and Albins are bad?

I broke my Albins 5th gear and before I broke the other gears I sold my transmission I switch to a 2011 STi 6-speed. I really hate the extra weight and I would love better gearing. I also would love a transmission in which I cannot miss a shift .

If you guys can prove us that the EMCO dogbox is as strong and durable as a STi 6-speed I will sell my transmission right away.

Phil you should talk to EMCO about the the R160. Maybe they can do something to make stronger so we can keep our cars drivetrain as light as possible.

GL
Juan,

I never said the PPG or Albins stuff was bad.

These are another option that will hopefully be available soon, that are LOCALLY made, and in my opinion, (mine) probably the nicest, highest quality gearset you could get for a Subaru.

If the Action Express DP's relies on EMCO gear boxes in their #9 & #5 DP

Start watching the video @ 1:30 enjoy






EMCO must be doing something right.

I will sell my 6 speed in a second when these become available!

Plus I get first dibbs


-Phil
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:57 PM   #28
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I found a cool video of EMCO gears.... I would want something like this with a built r160...

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Old 03-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #29
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Got a friend looking for a 5 speed box on a tight time frame. What is the anticipated ETA?
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Aceyduce View Post
Got a friend looking for a 5 speed box on a tight time frame. What is the anticipated ETA?

It's gonna be a while.

6-8 months is a rough estimate.

This has been a long time in the making.

Rolex series and Grand-AM series racing seasons have begun, this is busy time.

There really is no down time over there.

-Phil @ F4M
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:12 PM   #31
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Completely understand! I'm looking forward to the updates.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:13 PM   #32
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Completely understand! I'm looking forward to the updates.
Check out my facebook page as well for updates!
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:51 PM   #33
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I found a cool video of EMCO gears.... I would want something like this with a built r160...

http://youtu.be/jUSPwmN9MWE
Here is a grainy but good factory tour.

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Old 03-04-2013, 03:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post
Yes and yes.

I'm glad that people in this thread understand that race parts have to be serviced.
So what the percentage of owners in here that really race their cars on a level that will require them to rip apart and rebuild these gears? I was under the impression that these gears were going to be for people who want to install a 6spd or ppg gear set in the car.

Do we really have that many "race car" owners in here? And with that said....It doesent sound like EMCO will be really profiting on making such a small amout of gear sets for the few people that actually race their cars and beat the hell outa them.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by shamrock 05 View Post

So what the percentage of owners in here that really race their cars on a level that will require them to rip apart and rebuild these gears? I was under the impression that these gears were going to be for people who want to install a 6spd or ppg gear set in the car.

Do we really have that many "race car" owners in here? And with that said....It doesent sound like EMCO will be really profiting on making such a small amout of gear sets for the few people that actually race their cars and beat the hell outa them.
Regardless if your racing, merely just beating your car, autoX, you name it parts are going to need replaced in a built transmission. My PPG boxes have been torn down numerous times for "maintenance"

In my eyes this is going to be a good alternative to manufactures like PPG, Albins, 6 speed swaps.... Once emco gears have been produced for the subarus I can see these catching on pretty quick in the subie world therefore I personally think it'd be pretty profitable.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #36
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I know what its like protecting IP, so if you guys don't want to spill the beans, that's fine.

But, if the gears are separating from each other, and that is causing poor tooth contact and progressive shearing, why are we looking at yet another set of gears on the market? All gear designs want to separate. And if its not the case, then you guys have pinned it on the shafts, correct? So these gears will include bigger / different material / revised shaft? We're going after root cause, right?

I'm a root cause sort of fella, so if that is what we are doing here, sign me up...
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #37
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what's the recommended hourly tear down interval on something like this?
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 03Sonicywrx View Post
Regardless if your racing, merely just beating your car, autoX, you name it parts are going to need replaced in a built transmission. My PPG boxes have been torn down numerous times for "maintenance"

In my eyes this is going to be a good alternative to manufactures like PPG, Albins, 6 speed swaps.... Once emco gears have been produced for the subarus I can see these catching on pretty quick in the subie world therefore I personally think it'd be pretty profitable.
I hear ya and I dont wnat this to turn into a pissing contest, Im all for an american company making a solid product. BUT my question still remains.....people who have 6spds dont rebuild those. Crawford performance ran the sti 6spd in all of their time attack cars and really had no issues.


I take that back, the car that was used before the 08 (tiger) car finally broke one of the gears.....however that was after countelss races with that car pushing 700hp.


I maybe way out of bounds here....but all I am saying is that I dont see the point in producing a "built" 5 speed that will cost between $3-5K if not more and yet you will still have to service it and tear it apart.

We are not in the Grand-Am series here fellas
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by shamrock 05 View Post

I hear ya and I dont wnat this to turn into a pissing contest, Im all for an american company making a solid product. BUT my question still remains.....people who have 6spds dont rebuild those. Crawford performance ran the sti 6spd in all of their time attack cars and really had no issues.

I take that back, the car that was used before the 08 (tiger) car finally broke one of the gears.....however that was after countelss races with that car pushing 700hp.

I maybe way out of bounds here....but all I am saying is that I dont see the point in producing a "built" 5 speed that will cost between $3-5K if not more and yet you will still have to service it and tear it apart.

We are not in the Grand-Am series here fellas
Nope, I'm not one to get into a pissing contest on this forum, like many others. Haha.

I completely agree with you in the aspect of the 6 speed, if I had the doll hairs to afford a 6spd at the time I needing something, I totally would have given it some thought. Transmission, rear, hubs, brakes, linkage, clutch, etc adds up to a great deal of money. I purchased both of my ppg boxes for ~$3500 total. I was in college at the time, and I simply couldn't afford the 6spd.

Also, I love the longer ratios of the 5spd, and not shifting constantly especially once you start putting some nice power down.

If something ever happens to my PPG's who knows maybe ill finally cave in for the 6spd.

Regardless, the fact of the matter is if they end up producing a proven 5spd I personally think it'd be a great alternative from some of the other manufactures, especially being that it's in the states. And seeing the number of people who run PPG gears maybe if this comes about the tables will turn to emco for those who want a 5spd and can't afford the swap of the 6.

But yes, I agree that the factory 6 is definitely a killer drivetrain and proven time and time again.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrock 05

I hear ya and I dont wnat this to turn into a pissing contest, Im all for an american company making a solid product. BUT my question still remains.....people who have 6spds dont rebuild those. Crawford performance ran the sti 6spd in all of their time attack cars and really had no issues.

I take that back, the car that was used before the 08 (tiger) car finally broke one of the gears.....however that was after countelss races with that car pushing 700hp.

I maybe way out of bounds here....but all I am saying is that I dont see the point in producing a "built" 5 speed that will cost between $3-5K if not more and yet you will still have to service it and tear it apart.

We are not in the Grand-Am series here fellas
There have been many broken 6-speeds. We (TIC and 3MI) killed ours on low boost, though after plenty of use, this past fall. The 6-spd has never liked shifting fast nor at high RPM. It is also heavy and for track use, I view it as having 1 gear too many

I'm assuming those comparing a light and serviceable dogbox to a synchronized 6-spd aren't looking at this for a track/rally/race car.

I know that if we are killing 4th gear rolling into throttle off of a corner in low boost on our small turbo...running 6-spd trannies as a consumable is going to get very expensive. With that being said, torque, tractive force and mass are what matter for rating driveline components.

I'm all for a lighter option and something I can tear down in the pits IF something breaks.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:55 PM   #41
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The main thing here guys, is this is an alternative to the 6 speed swap.

weight savings is HUGE when you're racing time attack, road race, drag, ect.

70LBS is 70LBS

EMCO did the gearbox for the Nissan Delta Wing, that trans is like 68lbs or something stupid like that, obviously magnesium case and billet blah, blah blah, but you get the idea.

why run a six speed and all that extra weight if you don't have to?

If there's an option for a 5MT with which ever aftermarket diff you want to run depending on your application, superb quality gears, local support, locally made, it's a freaking no brainer.

EMCO is the solution.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post

There have been many broken 6-speeds. We (TIC and 3MI) killed ours on low boost, though after plenty of use, this past fall. The 6-spd has never liked shifting fast nor at high RPM. It is also heavy and for track use, I view it as having 1 gear too many

I'm assuming those comparing a light and serviceable dogbox to a synchronized 6-spd aren't looking at this for a track/rally/race car.

I know that if we are killing 4th gear rolling into throttle off of a corner in low boost on our small turbo...running 6-spd trannies as a consumable is going to get very expensive. With that being said, torque, tractive force and mass are what matter for rating driveline components.

I'm all for a lighter option and something I can tear down in the pits IF something breaks.
Forget to mention that part, 6spd is adding a lot of weight, which for some plays a tremendous factor.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:06 PM   #43
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Building on the mentions of working with the Delta Wing.....How about a lightweight trans similar to the Falcon or Brinn type????

Jay
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:59 PM   #44
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Building on the mentions of working with the Delta Wing.....How about a lightweight trans similar to the Falcon or Brinn type????

Jay

Jay,

They can make cases. I know the Delta Wing unit is billet.

This is a sequential unit, probably in a DP



I know they do castings of the housings.

The Delta Wing I believe is a 5 speed sequential.

Have you looked at the product offerings on EMCO's website.

They can make pretty much anything you want, one off's are gonna be mucho bucks obviously.

More than most anyone on here can afford.

-Phil

Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 03-07-2013 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:43 AM   #45
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Yeah, custom cases are $$$ once you factor in either A) tooling to cast or B) machine time to cut from billet.

I once had too much time and started mapping out a sequential drum for the 5-spd that I would have integrated a new case half for...then I got a tooling quote
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post
Jay,

They can make cases. I know the Delta Wing unit is billet.

This is a sequential unit, probably in a DP



I know they do castings of the housings.

The Delta Wing I believe is a 5 speed sequential.

Have you looked at the product offerings on EMCO's website.

They can make pretty much anything you want, one off's are gonna be mucho bucks obviously.

More than most anyone on here can afford.

-Phil
That is not the DP box. The DP box is the GA46. The one you posted is a transaxle for a front engine car.
This is the propper picture.

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Old 03-05-2013, 11:27 PM   #47
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That is not the DP box. The DP box is the GA46. The one you posted is a transaxle for a front engine car.
This is the propper picture.



I wasn't sure what that original picture was out of, I used it as example to show a casting along with a billet case on one unit.

I changed the picture if it makes you feel warm and sleep better.

BTW your links don't work.


-Phil
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:49 PM   #48
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Cost?
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:38 PM   #49
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Cost?

Hey Matt,

We're still working out the details.

I would like to talk with you about some of your stuff though.

My email is info@flat4motorsport.com

-Phil @ F4M
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:23 PM   #50
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Be interesting in what you come up with. I have always been about saving weight and not going to a 6 speed if I can help it. Just wish there was a cheaper alternative to a mechanical LSD for the R160.
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