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Old 03-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #1
NewbSTI
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Default Need help learning my AP and Tuning

So I have my first LOG - I would like some pointers and someone to look at it and let me know what they think of it. How do I get it where you all can see it?

So I have decided to start tweaking my tune with the Cobb AP.

Here is what I have:

SPT CAI Intake
Perrin 2.4" Silicone Turbo Inlet Tube
Megan 3" Catless DP
SPT CBE - Converted to 3"
Perrin LWCP

Currently I am running the 91 Stage 2 OTS map and I am super impressed with the performance from the car.

I have the Access Tuner Race Software.

Questions:

1) TVG Delete - is there enough of a gain to perform this mod? I have the skills and the time to do this myself, just curious if it is really worth.

2) One Step Colder Plugs - What does this do?

3) What would be a good next step?

4) Data logging - after I log a few times, where is the best place to go and TRANSLATE what I am seeing?

Thanks for the help.
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Last edited by NewbSTI; 03-15-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:16 PM   #2
miracle_whip4130
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No offense, but you need to do some serious research before you start "tweaking" your tune. What are your goals? Do you have a wideband UEGO yet? Have you read up on the basics of MAF tuning and how the Subaru BCS works? All of your questions can be easily answered by searching on this site or elsewhere.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:53 PM   #3
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Wideband UEGO is next on the purchase list and will be getting that before I begin to tune.

No offense taken, I have no idea what I am doing and that is why I asked the question.

Just beginning my research now - at first I bought the Cobb AP so that I could just load and go, now I have become more interested in the TUNE side of this.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #4
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Good to hear. I would first read up on how to log data with the AP and what parameters you want to log. Cobb has a video tutorial of this somewhere on youtube, actually. From there you can start logging and looking at patterns in the data (along with more reading) to figure out how the different fuel trims and boost and timing compensations work. Once you have a handle on how the ECU works and what all the tables inside it mean, you can start tuning and planning future upgrades. I would do all of that and get your wideband before you add any more upgrades, because once you do all of this, you should enough information to decide which upgrades would be best for you.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:43 AM   #5
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So a couple of things:

First: I cannot find anything anywhere on Basics for MAF Tuning.

Second: The Cobb lets you pic 10 variables to log - which 10 are needed - or what is needed for that matter?

Third: the AFR reading in the Cobb, how is that different then the Wideband?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
First: I cannot find anything anywhere on Basics for MAF Tuning.
Why do you think you need to tune your MAF table?

Edit: realized that I missed the SPT intake. It is a SRI not a CAI, by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
Second: The Cobb lets you pic 10 variables to log - which 10 are needed - or what is needed for that matter?
What??? I can log as many parameters as I want with both the AP and ATR. The more parameters you log, the slower the logging rate though. Here is what I log currently (listed in order from ATR):
Calculated Load
DA Primary Map Ratio
RPM
FBKC
FKL
Iginition Timing
LM1-A/F Ratio
Manifold Rel. Press. (Boost)
Throttle Position
Vehicle Speed
WDC

I used to log AF Correction #1 and Learning #1 values but I have done those enough that I do not need to anymore. I just check the AF Learning 1 table for values periodically and see that all is still good. I do not log DAM because it is 1.0 and has never changed from that. I do periodically check to ensure that it is still 1.0. But really, with DA Primary Map Ratio and FBKC / FKL I will know long before there is any change to my DAM value. I log Load (and not MAF) because I can calculate airflow using load and RPM.
MAF = Load*RPM/60

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
Third: the AFR reading in the Cobb, how is that different then the Wideband?
The AP AFR reading the stock front O2 sensor. When you are cruising around in closed loop it is accurate. As soon as you start building boost and get into open loop fueling, ignore the stock O2 sensor. This is where a WB O2 sensor installed after the turbo comes in. The exhaust pressure before the turbo makes the stock sensor useless under high boost conditions. The exhaust pressure after the turbo is much lower and perfect for a WB sensor to tell you what is going on while you are open loop.

The AP cannot display or log a WB O2 sensor, you have to use ATR for that. ATR is a free download from Cobb. You can use ATR solely for logging purposes if you want. You do not need to change any map tables just because you have ATR on your laptop.

Last edited by jebjkey; 03-05-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
So a couple of things:

First: I cannot find anything anywhere on Basics for MAF Tuning.

Second: The Cobb lets you pic 10 variables to log - which 10 are needed - or what is needed for that matter?

Third: the AFR reading in the Cobb, how is that different then the Wideband?
Hi there.

The first link on the following page contains the tuning guide for the Accesstuner software. There is a section on intake calibration.
https://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums...and-Worksheets

While the SPT intake is a Subaru part and you would think that they adequately designed the part to be compatible with the factory MAF calibration, our calibrators have found that not to be the case, so it will need tuning as far as MAF calibration when used with our off-the-shelf (OTS) maps. For your car, the Cobb SF intake is compatible with our maps without any additional tuning required.

The Accessport has a default set of parameters that are automatically selected, but you can select or deselect any parameters you want via the "Monitor" -> "Set Data Log List" menu. If you wish to return to the default list at any time, then you simply select the "Reset Log List" function. Keep in mind that the more parameters you log, the less the resolution you will get. Also, beyond a certain point with a larger number of parameters selected (depends on the number and exact monitors you select), the ECU will stop responding. We recommend using the default parameter list unless you have a specific concern that you need to diagnose that requires additional/different parameters.

As jebjkey mentioned, the Accessport monitors the factory front o2 sensor, which is only going to be accurate in idle/cruise/low boost situations. An aftermarket wideband o2 sensor (installed in downpipe) will allow you to monitor fueling across all load ranges. The Accesstuner software does support specific wideband o2 sensors, so if you get one of those sensors, you can data log the wideband input along with other normal ECU parameters.

Bill
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:01 PM   #8
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jebjkey and Bill thank you for your help.

Bill - do you have a list of WideBand O2 sensors that are supported?
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:50 PM   #9
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If you download ATR it will have a list under the Edit : Configure Options drop down menu:
AEM UEGO
Innovate LM-1 (it is labled LM-1 but the LC-1 will connect perfectly)
PLX M-300 USB
PLX iMFD
MoTec Pro. Lambda meter
PLX R-300/500
Zeitronix ZT-2
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jebjkey View Post
If you download ATR it will have a list under the Edit : Configure Options drop down menu:
AEM UEGO
Innovate LM-1 (it is labled LM-1 but the LC-1 will connect perfectly)
PLX M-300 USB
PLX iMFD
MoTec Pro. Lambda meter
PLX R-300/500
Zeitronix ZT-2
To add to this, we've recently confirmed that AEM's "in-line" controller is not compatible with our software, so if you are going with the AEM UEGO, get the one with the digital gauge, which should be compatible with ATR.

Bill
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:56 PM   #11
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So I am going to purchase the AEM UEGO - do I want the 30-4100 or the 30-4900?
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:49 PM   #12
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Ok I purchased the Innovate LC-1 an STRI Boost and the SMY pod for my car today. Read the related documents from the Cobb Forum, watched a bunch of the videos on Youtube and cannot wait to get started with this.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:00 PM   #13
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Ensure that you pay attention to the installation instructions for the LC-1. The ground is important and you should figure out how you are going to wire everything up now. Check the Innovate Motorsports web site to download the LC-1 manual. It can "fun" to wire up the LC-1. Many people tap off the stereo or clock power for 12Vdc.

You also want to spend some time now looking for a good place to put the the calibration push button and LED. I installed them at the bottom of my center dash, just below the H-VAC knobs on the right side of the air temp sensor. They are out of the way but easily accessible and look like they belong there. I could take a picture but since my car is at home (Naples, Italy) and I am currently on a business trip (in Diego Garcia) until late this month, it would have to wait.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:13 PM   #14
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I found a picture from when I had an 04 WRX and installed a LC-1. I did not have a gage with it, just used StreetTuner (called ATR now) to log AFR. I have a gage with my 05 STi so there was some extra wiring, but not bad. You rarely use the calibration button, upon installation and then only if you disconnect the sensor or think it may be off for some reason.

I was a little ghetto on the install and just left them sticking out of the dash. My 05 STi installation is permanent (I drilled holes in the plastic) and looks MUCH better. (The LED is tucked behind the pushbutton in this picture)

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
So I am going to purchase the AEM UEGO - do I want the 30-4100 or the 30-4900?
I know you bought a different wideband, but for reference, for our software, the 30-4100 is the kit that should work with Accesstuner as far as AEM widebands are concerned.

Bill
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:33 PM   #16
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I have my first DATA LOG - now what?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
I have my first DATA LOG - now what?
What specifically did you want to do with the information from the data log? You can put the log up on google docs and then link to the log here. Or you can post it up at the cobbforums (click on "Go Advanced" and "Manage Attachments" when posting).

Bill
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:05 PM   #18
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Bill - I have a couple posts on here that show about 6 logs that I have pulled from the car. Just let me know if you see something that is out of place or more specific pull information to better help.

Also I have another quick question. I have ready everywhere on the installation of my Innovate Wideband and have not seen anything about placement of the sensor as in relation to the turbo. I have found that it needs to be between the CAT and Turbo, but I have heard that to close to the turbo can damage it. My Megan Cat-Less DP has a bung in the bellmouth and I was curious if I can use that for the sensor.

Thanks as always.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbSTI View Post
My Megan Cat-Less DP has a bung in the bellmouth and I was curious if I can use that for the sensor.

Thanks as always.
Put the wideband sensor in the bung at the bellmouth.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:49 PM   #20
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It usually should be a bit farther down then the manufacturers put it, but you can use that spot and get a good reading. If anything it just reduces the life of the sensor is all.


edit: accidentally a word

Last edited by endrswrd; 03-19-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:00 PM   #21
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Thank you both for the help. I have read where you can fabricate a heat sink. I have the material and ability to do this. Will this help with the placement of the sensor?
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:09 PM   #22
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I made a heatsink plate for mine. Probably don't need it since the sensor (at the bellmouth of the DP) is some 2 feet away from the exhaust valves.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:46 PM   #23
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Airboy - perfect, thank you.
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