Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday January 30, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2015, 03:27 PM   #1
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

News Toyota to give away fuel-cell patents to boost industry. Tesla issued challenge

http://www.japantoday.com/category/t...boost-industry
Place your bets as more will be coming to the Hydrogen fuel table soon. Like everyone else.
Toyota to give away fuel-cell patents to boost industry

Technology Jan. 06, 2015 - 04:00PM JST ( 19 )

A man refuels Toyota Motor's fuel cell vehicle "Mirai" at a hydrogen station in Tokyo on Nov 17, 2014. AFP TOKYO —
Toyota will give away thousands of patents for its fuel-cell cars, it said Tuesday, in an effort to encourage other automakers into the new industry.
The world’s largest vehicle maker said it will allow royalty-free use of about 5,680 patent licenses, including 1,970 related to fuel-cell stacks and 3,350 concerning fuel-cell system control technology.
The firm also said the free patent licenses will include about 290 items related to high-pressure hydrogen tanks.
The cost-free licenses will be allowed “through the initial market introduction period” of fuel cell vehicles (FCV), which the company expects to last until about 2020.
Toyota will also open about 70 patent licenses related to hydrogen stations—the equivalent of gas stands for internal combustion vehicles, and a vital link in the chain for drivers—indefinitely for manufacturers and operators.
“By allowing royalty-free use of FCV-related patent licenses, Toyota is going one step further as it aims to promote the widespread use of FCVs and actively contribute to the realisation of a hydrogen-based society,” the automaker said in a statement.
The announcement came after Toyota last month rolled out the world’s first mass market fuel-cell car—the four-door Mirai sedan—in Japan.
The car—whose name means “future” in Japanese—will hit the U.S. and some European countries, including Britain, Germany and Denmark, in 2015, Toyota has said.
It hopes to sell more than 3,000 units of the car by the end of 2017 in the United States, and up to 100 annually in Europe.
Fuel-cell cars are seen as the Holy Grail of green cars as they are powered by a chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen, which produces nothing more harmful than water at the point of use.
But a limited driving range and lack of refueling stations have hampered development of fuel-cell and their cousin, all-electric cars, which environmentalists say could play a vital role in cutting greenhouse gas emissions and slowing global warming.
The Mirai can travel about 650 kilometers without refueling, some three times further than an electric car, and its tank can be filled in a few minutes like gasoline engine vehicles, according to Toyota.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 04:50 PM   #2
Balantz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101457
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
Czar of Sweet Dance
Moves

Default

What am I missing here regarding the viability of hydrogen fuel cells? Isn't hydrogen a net energy loss due to production requirements?
Balantz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 02:54 PM   #3
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default Hydrogen most abundant element in Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
What am I missing here regarding the viability of hydrogen fuel cells? Isn't hydrogen a net energy loss due to production requirements?
Ya Think ?? Comprende ? It's a real gas
http://education.jlab.org/glossary/abund_uni.html

10 Most Abundant Elements in the Universe
Source: Exploring Chemical Elements and their Compounds; David L. Heiserman, 1992
Element Abundance
measured relative to silicon
Hydrogen40,000
Helium
3,100
Oxygen
22
Neon
8.6
Nitrogen
6.6Carbon3.5Silicon1Magnesium0.91Iron0.6Sulfur0.38
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 03:26 PM   #4
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
What am I missing here regarding the viability of hydrogen fuel cells? Isn't hydrogen a net energy loss due to production requirements?
psssh

never stopped ethonol.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...scientist-says
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 04:16 PM   #5
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
'09 wrx
'14 Outback

Default

Difference is, the farming lobbyists paid congress to push ethanol production. Nobody is pushing the government to subsidize hydrogen.
dwf137 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 04:16 PM   #6
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Are you suggesting the ethonol movment is polically driven! GASP!
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 04:28 PM   #7
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
'09 wrx
'14 Outback

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
Ya Think ?? Comprende ? It's a real gas


Chemistry class must have been a blur for you.

You do realize that most hydrogen on our planet is combined with other atoms/molecules, and not in gaseous form, right? Hydrogen in fuel cells typically comes from a process involving natural gas, while water electrolysis is being researched, the process consumes way more energy than it actually produces.

Until hydrogen production becomes more efficient, it's almost a non-starter. People continuing to buy fuel cell vehicles are subsidizing the market and research into more efficient methods though, so that's always a good thing.
dwf137 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 04:54 PM   #8
skywaffles
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82470
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
show me your
wizard nose

Default

Hydrogen is a retarded energy storage method for vehicles. The generation is expensive, the density sucks, and the storage is heavy and complex.

You're better off just using the CNG it's derived from.
skywaffles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 12:16 AM   #9
legav05
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 51287
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2005

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post
Hydrogen is a retarded energy storage method for vehicles. The generation is expensive, the density sucks, and the storage is heavy and complex.

You're better off just using the CNG it's derived from.
Forgot to mention Hindenburg.
legav05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 01:00 AM   #10
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 That's *Sir*
Weinerlicks of Douche 2u.

Default

Outside of rocketry, dirigibles are the one valid use of transportation with hydrogen. Bunch-a risk-averse sissies.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 04:39 PM   #11
sxotty
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Outside of rocketry, dirigibles are the one valid use of transportation with hydrogen. Bunch-a risk-averse sissies.
I agree

But lets stop the silly push for cars. If hydrogen fuel becomes super cheap and abundant due to some unforeseen fancy thing we can make cars that use it then. The tax payers will be asked to pay for hydrogen fueling infrastructure for a boondoggle somewhere otherwise.
sxotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 12:05 PM   #12
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post


Chemistry class must have been a blur for you.

You do realize that most hydrogen on our planet is combined with other atoms/molecules, and not in gaseous form, right? Hydrogen in fuel cells typically comes from a process involving natural gas, while water electrolysis is being researched, the process consumes way more energy than it actually produces.

Until hydrogen production becomes more efficient, it's almost a non-starter. People continuing to buy fuel cell vehicles are subsidizing the market and research into more efficient methods though, so that's always a good thing.
Bloom also uses direct natural gas conversions
http://www.bloomenergy.com/fuel-cell...ell-animation/
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.