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Old 03-06-2013, 07:30 PM   #1
DDScooby
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Default what else are needed for running ID2000cc injectors?

I've heard some competing information from various sources (tuners, manufacturers, resellers, etc) when running anything above a ~12-1400cc injector set up. Obviously a beefy fuel pump or duel pumps would be needed. Above 300lph and into the 4-500lph range from what I've seen so far. Other than that...what else? Regulator? Fuel rails?....

This is keeping in mind using the in-tank fueling set up within the car. But again, is that even feasible with a fuel injector having that high of a flow rate?

EDIT:
Horsepower goals for above 400whp...w/a GT3076R sized snail and fully built motor with head work (aka not stock cams). Using 93oct, Meth, E85, and/or 100oct race gas.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:54 PM   #2
reemwrb04sti
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You don't need id2000s for 400whp on either fuels you stated
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #3
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I know...it's more of a general question. Running ID2000's @ 43.5psi. ID claims that it runs fine in the OEM fuel system. Obviously a bigger pump is needed. Guess I needed to word it better. Are OEM wrx/sti fuel rails, filter, regulator and hard lines sufficient to keep those injectors running optimally?
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:48 PM   #4
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do rails, lines, walbro 465, FPR, and ID1000s.

No need to even think about 2000cc with your goals. The setup above will be good for over 500whp+
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:48 PM   #5
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:53 PM   #6
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Hard lines are sufficient enough...for piece of mind I will get rails and an aftermarket regulator...I run the ID2000s but I'm also on e85 and shooting for over 700whp
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:59 AM   #7
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I'm gettin it now... :light bulb: So, really the only reason for ID2000s is anything over 500whp? Got it. I was more or less trying to figure out, 'when' exactly ID2000s were needed. Moreover, what else is needed with the injectors with respect to fueling. My failing is that I was trying to over simplify/generalize when there are too many specific variables that make it hard to answer or ask the right Question. :/:
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:24 AM   #8
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The injector size is somewhat irrelevant to what supporting mods you'll need on your fuel system.

What does matter is your injector size coupled with your expected IDC.

For example, you can run IDC2000s on stock fuel lines, stock FPR, and a walbro 255 pump if you're running 30-40% IDC. This would support 400whp.

Or, you could run IDC1000s, at 70% IDC and still be ok on a walbro 255 pump.

Think of it like this... When trying to make big power, you're always chasing the current bottleneck. Every component in the car is or will be a bottleneck at some point.

It doesn't matter if the fuel pump is too small for the injectors if the fuel pump can provide enough fuel for your target boost.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:07 AM   #9
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^that was what I was looking for. So....the walbro 400lph pump w/ID2000s running at ~30% IDC with the OEM everythin else would be more than enough for anything up to a GT3582 for target boost at 26psi? Somehow that still seems like way overkill for a 'street' setup. But I at least want to know I'm on the right track...
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:12 AM   #10
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What fuel do you plan on running? If its not e85 id2000 or overkill in my opinion...ID1000 would do the job for a 3582 on pump or race gas..
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reemwrb04sti View Post
Hard lines are sufficient enough...for piece of mind I will get rails and an aftermarket regulator...I run the ID2000s but I'm also on e85 and shooting for over 700whp
The hard lines are definitely sufficient, but to run rails you will some how need to run fittings into those rails.

I do not like using push lock fittings, for how much they cost you're better off using AN fittinds and running lines to a fpr and to the OEM hardlines at the fire wall.

Thats how I do all my kits and they come out beautifully.

-6AN (3/8) is not much bigger than 5/16

The advantages of upgrading the lines is that you can run most fprs on the market as they require -6AN to -10AN inputs.


-Phil
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:35 AM   #12
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LOL I have fiveO 2200cc injectors and the E85 460lph Walbro and nothing else... and runs fine. Fuel systems here are get so complicated just like people running aftermarket ECUs for 500whp
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDScooby View Post
I'm gettin it now... :light bulb: So, really the only reason for ID2000s is anything over 500whp? Got it. I was more or less trying to figure out, 'when' exactly ID2000s were needed. Moreover, what else is needed with the injectors with respect to fueling. My failing is that I was trying to over simplify/generalize when there are too many specific variables that make it hard to answer or ask the right Question. :/:
ID1000s can make over 500whp with the setup I described. I would NOT recommend ID2000s for your setup now since IDC's will be stupid low. If you were slapping a GT35r on right away I would maybe go with the 2000s
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:16 AM   #14
Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDScooby View Post
I'm gettin it now... :light bulb: So, really the only reason for ID2000s is anything over 500whp? Got it. I was more or less trying to figure out, 'when' exactly ID2000s were needed. Moreover, what else is needed with the injectors with respect to fueling. My failing is that I was trying to over simplify/generalize when there are too many specific variables that make it hard to answer or ask the right Question. :/:
ID1000s can make over 500whp with the setup I described. I would NOT recommend ID2000s for your setup now since IDC's will be stupid low. If you were slapping a GT35r on right away I would maybe go with the 2000s
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:33 AM   #15
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Injector size has absolutely nothing to do with whether you need to upgrade lines, rails, or FPR. The only thing that matters is how much your fuel pump flows.

The order goes:
1) Determine your target power level and fuel type
2) Determine your fuel requirements
3) Select injectors that will get you there
4) Select a fuel pump that will get you there
5) Ignore #2 and just focus on what the pump you selected in #4 ACTUALLY FLOWS, and use that number to determine if you need to upgrade lines, rails, or FPR
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:32 PM   #16
reemwrb04sti
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My setup buschur double pumper aeromotive -6 regulator T1 rails side feed to top feed ID2000s custom lines done by my mechanic also have flex fuel sensor and zeitronix ethanol content analyzer
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:23 PM   #17
RemlapaN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDScooby View Post
^that was what I was looking for. So....the walbro 400lph pump w/ID2000s running at ~30% IDC with the OEM everythin else would be more than enough for anything up to a GT3582 for target boost at 26psi? Somehow that still seems like way overkill for a 'street' setup. But I at least want to know I'm on the right track...
That's because they are overkill for the above setup, yes.

You won't really *NEED* IDC2000s unless you're running a GT35 at 30psi on E85 with head work. And even then, some tuners will be more comfortable running smaller injectors with a base fuel pressure of 60+ psi and a really beefy fuel pump.

All of the above info in this thread is spot on. You're seeing so many different answers because there are many many ways to go about it.

This is the way I went about my injector selection:

1. Find a tuner to tune my car
2. Discuss target power level with tuner (500-550whp in my case)
3. Ask tuner what injectors he is most comfortable tuning at target power level, leaving room for E85 or Q16 if I choose to do that later
4. Go with those injectors
5. Put a fuel pump in that will handle my immediate goals, with the expectation that switching to E85 in the future would require lines and a fuel pump.

For reference, I'm halfway thru doing a GT3582 1.06 with cams and headwork. I'm running IDC2000s with a Bosch 044 pump in-tank because the tuner has complete confidence in getting the car to idle in the 14 AFRs with those injectors and has tuned them on many cars. If he had any doubt, I would've went with smaller injectors and dealt with the injector sizing again if I wanted to run E85.
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