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Old 09-20-2002, 04:18 PM   #1
MattSEG
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Angry Not the Clutch, Not the Center Diff, Doubt the Tranny...Why the slip feeling???

So here is the problem:

After driving the car for 5 minutes, when leaving a light or in a low gear (1 or 2, even a little in 3 or 4) it feels like the clutch is slipping; revs climb speedo goes high, car barely moves, finally doesn't feel like its slipping in 3rd or 4th, though in 3rd or 4th heaven forbid I get into the power range, it slips and makes a clanging feeling.

Dealer thought it was the clutch, we got it replaced...I drove the car for 5 minutes, still have the problem.

Dealer thought it was the center diff, replaced it...I drove the car for 5 minutes, still have the problem.

Dealer thought it could be a bad pressure plate, replaced it....they drove the car for 5 minutes, still have the problem.

The Blitz PowerMeter says I am making buckoo power, 580-600 odd horsepower in 1st gear. It gets its info from the ecu by the way.

I turned my boost down to 7psi (lowest possible/ actuator spring level) and it still does it.


For the record I also have a chalak synchro box. That said, and with what has been replaced, what the hell could it be????

I was under the impression if the tranny was gone the car would simply not move in the affected gear.

At 6,000 feet above sea level my car makes a wee bit more than stock at sea level, I figure no more than 250-260hp.

Any idea what this could possibly be??????
HELP HELP!!!!

TIA,
-Matt (who is very very depressed about not having my car for the past 2 weeks)
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Old 09-20-2002, 05:52 PM   #2
Jon [in CT]
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Since this happens in all gears and isn't accompanied by a lot of noise, this HAS to be a clutch slippage problem. Anything on the list below that you haven't tried yet?
Attached Images
File Type: gif clutchslippage.gif (36.4 KB, 663 views)
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Old 09-20-2002, 06:18 PM   #3
MattSEG
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The Clutch (face) was replaced, as was the pressure plate (diaphragm) and as I know it is common place to replace the pilot bearing, and I am 95% sure they did. Though that is certainly in accordance to the symptoms, sans that I never tried the 'stall test.'
......and the flywheel was resurfaced, though perhaps they could have 'over done' it(made too thin)?

-Matt
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Old 09-20-2002, 06:51 PM   #4
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thats really odd.

I would go down the list joe provided, I say its a clutch slip problem as well. Do you smell anything after it slips?

the dealer is doing all this warranty work on your car with a a chalak synchro box, and other mods? weee you found yourself a good dealer It could be a stripped gear but that would be very noisey.

Jay
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Old 09-20-2002, 07:04 PM   #5
MattSEG
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I like my service manager, and all the guys in the shop. The rep didn't warranty my original tranny, and my car isnt that modded, at 6000 feet high it is maybe 20hp over stock at sea level.

The SM said he had heard about this problem on an outback and it was something in the tranny but he didn't hear what. I can't fathom how it could be something in the tranny though.
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Old 09-21-2002, 04:30 PM   #6
munkis
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wait wait wait...in your first post.
Quote:
revs climb speedo goes high, car barely moves
your speedo would only climb if the power was getting to the wheels...and they where spinning...

see what im saying? check that again, and make sure the speedo is actually climbing..

this might be a hint as to the problem.

Jay
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Old 09-21-2002, 04:33 PM   #7
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Another thought.

Try and reproduce this problem on the lift with the car in the air, and see if the wheels stop spinning when the problem occurs.

Jay McDade
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Old 09-21-2002, 07:04 PM   #8
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Good idea.

The same sort of thing had happened like 6 months ago while I was in New Orleans, I took it to a dealer there, and they couldn't replicate the problem. But its been doing it constantly this time.

I doubt the wheels are spinning, and I was told the speedo sensor was in the tranny, and clutch issues would see a climbing speedo. Plus when I'd get on it, and come off the accelerator the speedo would drop substationally even at like 60mph.

That said Larry (imprezars.com) thought it could be the transfer shaft having issues.

-Matt
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Old 09-21-2002, 07:10 PM   #9
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Typically, the speedo sensor is in the tranny; but if the clutch is slipping it means it's not spinning the tranny, hence no increase in speed.... If the speedo is acutally climbing; it's gotta be slipping tire(s), or LSD(s), or sheared splines on the output from the tranny...
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Old 09-21-2002, 07:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thrash
Typically, the speedo sensor is in the tranny; but if the clutch is slipping it means it's not spinning the tranny, hence no increase in speed.... If the speedo is acutally climbing; it's gotta be slipping tire(s), or LSD(s), or sheared splines on the output from the tranny...
I totally agree, but with AWD you would *think* the power would make it to at least two wheels, ill have to go study the AWD system I bit, and see the power flow.

If you can get it to happen on the lift I think that would be the next best thing to do.

jay
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Old 09-23-2002, 10:46 AM   #11
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They want to crack open my tranny today, but I am trying to get ahold of them to suggest what you guys are saying.

It really doesn't feel like 2 wheels are getting full power (not sure if that is what you were proposing is the case)

I would be inclinded to think (since it isn't the clutch) a diff must be slipping, that would explain the feeling, though I doubt it is the rear, since that is only 15k miles old, and the center diff was just replaced, and the front diff isn't Limited Slip.

Sheared splines (transfer shaft?) could perhaps be the culprit, though I would think that would be quite noticeable to the eye, that and heaven only knows how I would have managed to shear something like that.

We shall see, any other suggestions would be very very appreciated.
Many thanks,
-Matt
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Old 09-23-2002, 11:16 AM   #12
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AHHHHHSOOOOO

So they did the 'lift test' turns out it appeared as though only fwd was engaging. Further they think they may have put in a bad center diff since "some white silicon looking stuff was oozing out" as my service manager said.

I'll keep everyone posted.
-Matt
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Old 09-23-2002, 04:20 PM   #13
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Ok, latest news...as this thread turns into a journal of what is wrong with the car.....
The center diff isn't faulty.
The transfer shaft looks good.
They opened my tranny and everything (chalak synchro gears) look good.
They figure it is the rear diff.

So just for good measure they are putting in a new rear diff, and a new center diff.

So that will make it 2 center diffs (on my 3rd), 2 rear diffs (on my 3rd), 1 clutches (on second), 1 pressure diaphragms (on 2nd), two new oil lines (on third), 1 power steering pump (on my second), one right front speaker, and one tranny (and a partrige in a pear tree) my car has gone through.


wish me luck on getting my car back by the end of the week.
-Matt

Last edited by MattSEG; 09-23-2002 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 09-23-2002, 06:05 PM   #14
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DOH! you had a bad speaker...thats your problem right there...speakers always have to be replaced in pares!!!

..hehe j/k

hope you get your problems resolved soon, defintly let me know what was up, cause this is very interesting to me anyway.

Your dealer is awsome, send them christmas gifts

Jay
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Old 09-23-2002, 07:15 PM   #15
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At my dealership I know 3 Mechanics, both service managers, both part guys and the cashier, we are on a first name basis..

Yeah, when my tranny went I brought them a case of various really good beers....saved me alot of money in 'forgotten' labor.

-Matt
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Old 09-26-2002, 11:32 AM   #16
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open front diff == wheelspin on inner front wheel on turns
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Old 09-26-2002, 07:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by patr
open front diff == wheelspin on inner front wheel on turns
yes, but what does that have to do with the problem at hand .
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Old 09-27-2002, 03:44 PM   #18
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Ok, so I think my service manager might not know much about subarus.

The white ooze was the 'filling' of the viscous coupling, they really only blow out when the rear diff doesn't work, and I've gone through 2 center diffs now. The center diff has a wicked tough snap ring that needs alot of internal pressure to pop. Pressure that would come from such massive slip as the rear wheels not spinning.

that said I'm 95% sure that the rear diff is dead.

now here comes the retarded part.

the service manager is going to wait until the tranny is back in the car, and they are going to take it for a spin to decide if they will replace the rear diff...which means they are needlessly going to blow another center diff....this means I'll have to wait another damned week to get my car back.

AAAAAAUUUUUGGGHHH
3 weeks with no rex makes Matt go crazy.
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Old 09-27-2002, 05:50 PM   #19
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yea that really doesnt make very much sence, hopefully the quick ride wont toast the new center diff...

Jay
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Old 09-28-2002, 03:58 PM   #20
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The quick ride didn't do it....but it took less than 50 miles to pop it.....I called him last night to tell him, and he called me back this morning telling me they will have a new rear diff...despite what I said he didn't order a new center...so things are still going to be half retarded for at least another week.....

Heaven forbid anyone listen to the mechanic that actually works on the car.
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Old 09-29-2002, 09:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattSEG
After driving the car for 5 minutes, when leaving a light or in a low gear (1 or 2, even a little in 3 or 4) it feels like the clutch is slipping; revs climb speedo goes high, car barely moves, finally doesn't feel like its slipping in 3rd or 4th, though in 3rd or 4th heaven forbid I get into the power range, it slips and makes a clanging feeling.
My car started doing the same thing last night. The speedo and the revs climb. I didn't smell the clutch until I let the revs climb to 6000rpm. When the clutch or what ever catchs the revs and speedo instantly drop to where they are susposed to be. When it's doing it if I let off the gas and quickly get back on the gas it will slip for a sec then take off like a bat outta hell. My car is stock exect for a turbo back exhaust.
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Old 09-29-2002, 07:04 PM   #22
MattSEG
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well If my past month has been any indication....

sucks to be you, get it checked out, they will start with the clutch and work back through the drivetrain.

-matt
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Old 09-30-2002, 01:45 AM   #23
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Actually, what I said was the car was acting like one half was on ice and the other half wasn't (where it only gets a little power to the other half and creeps along), so I thought maybe it was a diff or transfer shaft.
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Old 09-30-2002, 01:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRS dot com
Actually, what I said was the car was acting like one half was on ice and the other half wasn't (where it only gets a little power to the other half and creeps along), so I thought maybe it was a diff or transfer shaft.

And as usual, Larry knows what's up. The diffs have been really problematic on my car...hell the drivetrain has been problematic.
The transfer shaft (as best I know) is cool.

-Matt (krazy diff killah )
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Old 10-03-2002, 10:47 PM   #25
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So what is the final verdict?
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