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Old 06-13-2013, 04:16 PM   #426
stevehnm
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Obviously some people here don't understand the term "for comparison purposes".
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:23 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Obviously some people here don't understand the term "for comparison purposes".
Obviously others do not understand that:

"Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle."

For example, driving the car at speeds exceeding 70mph (speed limit where you live is 75mph, right? So you've told us repeatedly your time is valuable, what is your usual driving speed, 80? 85?)

And what is the name of that mesa you drive up? The one that has such steep elevation there is a Wikipedia article about it because early western pioneers had such a hard time passing over it?

That type of driving does not provide the 'guaranteed' 36mpg HWY? Inconceivable

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Old 06-13-2013, 06:27 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Obviously others do not understand that:

"Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle."

For example, driving the car at speeds exceeding 70mph (speed limit where you live is 75mph, right? So you've told us repeatedly your time is valuable, what is your usual driving speed, 80? 85?)

And what is the name of that mesa you drive up? The one that has such steep elevation there is a Wikipedia article about it because early western pioneers had such a hard time passing over it?

That type of driving does not provide the 'guaranteed' 36mpg HWY? Inconceivable
That's all irrelevant. We're talking about comparisons by professional drivers, not individual results. My opinion of my Impreza's mpg is worth nothing compared to that.

My mpg with my Impreza CVT is worth nothing in this discussion. Since you don't even have a CVT, your opinion is worth less than that.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #429
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You are filing a complaint with the EPA, it would surprise me if they think the language I am quoting off the EPA mandated Window Sticker is irrelevant.

There is an easy way to find out, next time you are in contact with them, ask them!

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Old 06-13-2013, 07:21 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
That's all irrelevant. We're talking about comparisons by professional drivers, not individual results. My opinion of my Impreza's mpg is worth nothing compared to that.

My mpg with my Impreza CVT is worth nothing in this discussion. Since you don't even have a CVT, your opinion is worth less than that.
even though i understand your beef based on my own experience with this car and others, and would gladly take some compensation from SOA if somehow you were to win this uphill battle, i have my doubts that you will make any progress here.

if it was impossible to get 36 highway driving 65mph, i think you might have a chance like the Elantra folks did. but that is not the case, the car does deliver its rated highway mileage at moderate speeds, even though it seems to take a bigger hit than most cars once when crosses 70mph.

i actually am a little surprised that Consumer Reports hit only 35mpg in their 65mph test of the Impreza. all my own experience suggests that i am probably in the high 30's (mpg) for that speed.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:38 PM   #431
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even though i understand your beef based on my own experience with this car and others, and would gladly take some compensation from SOA if somehow you were to win this uphill battle, i have my doubts that you will make any progress here.

if it was impossible to get 36 highway driving 65mph, i think you might have a chance like the Elantra folks did. but that is not the case, the car does deliver its rated highway mileage at moderate speeds, even though it seems to take a bigger hit than most cars once when crosses 70mph.

i actually am a little surprised that Consumer Reports hit only 35mpg in their 65mph test of the Impreza. all my own experience suggests that i am probably in the high 30's (mpg) for that speed.
Ditto. All of it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:13 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post

Ditto. All of it.
But as he said, he isn't filing any suit, saying Zeeper took me to left field. So there will be no magical compensation, not should there. "For comparison only" means, to compare something to something else. Nothing more, nothing less. I suggest you consult with an attny before you carry on anymore. It doesn't make any difference to me whatsoever, as I'm just someone in a town somewhere who understood I wasn't promised anything when I bought this car, or any car. But, I am not an uneducated idiot either. And I know you are treading very close to lawsuit territory, and not by you. You are intentionally misleading, misrepresenting, and misstating claims as facts. You talk all you like, flame all you please, and conjure a following among the descent people on this board, just be aware of where you are treading. I do not disagree with this entire topic, specifically with regard to the PSEV, however other parts are just defamatory. I'm not exactly sure you understand with whom your complaint is with. I understand whom you think it's with, however counsel will tell you otherwise. Carry on, just tread lightly.....
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:12 AM   #433
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"For comparison only" means, to compare something to something else.
Exactly my point. When others compare relatively well and the Impreza comes along out of the ballpark so far out of the picture that if the other Subaru is taken out of the equation it has a 50/50 chance of being the worst if there were 3 million vehicles tested instead of only a dozen, it's not "comparable".

Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post

You are intentionally misleading, misrepresenting, and misstating claims as facts. You talk all you like, flame all you please, and conjure a following among the descent people on this board, just be aware of where you are treading.
If you are now talking to me then what misrepresentation are you talking about? I think the one here who unequivocally misleads, misrepresents and misstates here is Zeeper, and there is way more than enough here to show that. I'm just trying to spread the facts. If someone thinks I am flaming them then they should look at said facts instead of "Oh, I was really careful today and drove really slowly and got 36 mpg in my CVT so that proves that I didn't make a mistake buying this car"

Not that it's not a good car - I love it otherwise. I just think Subaru should tune the Impreza for reality instead of a tightly controlled artificial environment. The EPA numbers are supposed to be "for comparison purposes" and with the Impreza they're not.

But thanks for your message.
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:33 AM   #434
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Dear EPA,

This is not your typical complaint. Usually someone contacts you to suggest you investigate an automaker because they think the manufacturer did not perform your mandated MPG tests accurately, are therefore in violation of the law, and owe consumers restitution.

I am not doing that. Though my car yields crappy mileage when driven at 75+mph, particularly when I drive up steep grades, I am now conceding the fact that other drivers, who drive it at speeds under 70mph on the highway, may be achieving the numbers printed on their window stickers (though I am still not completely convinced, they may all just be lying liars, SOA employees, and dealers).

No, I am complaining because I subscribe to Consumer Reports. And Consumer Reports publishes test data (I have some of their data, anyway, because I am not an employee of theirs, so I don't have access to all of their data), and when I compare their numbers between the newly redesigned Impreza, and other cars that they tested, it is a full 5 standard deviations off.

Sure Consumer Reports recommends the car as a best buy in the Small Car segment, and praised its excellent mpg's for an AWD car, and included it in their "best fuel economy" list. That is irrelevant.

Sure the EPA told me on the window sticker that "Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle." That is also irrelevant.

I am unhappy with my mpg's, I make spreadsheets, though I don't work for Subaru, and haven't shown any evidence that my degree in engineering makes me qualified to tune automobiles to perform best in the widest range of driving conditions (vis a vis balancing emissions vs mpg's vs power), I am convinced that Subaru tuned the car completely wrong, and if they retuned the car to meet my expectations, everyone would benefit.

Since we all know that Subaru will never retune every car they manufacture, nor recall all the cars they sold to retune them, just to satisfy me, despite my spreadsheets and vast knowledge, or lack thereof, of automobile manufacture, engineering, and tuning, I am seeking:

Money? compliments? recognition? Hell, I don't even know at this point.

Please get back to me, those spreadsheets took me a long time to do, and my time is invaluable.

STEVEHNM


LOL, that was fun to write, how accurate was it?

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Old 06-14-2013, 06:45 AM   #435
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You're an idiot.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:08 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
You're an idiot.
Thank you, parody is an art form, but I strive to be correct. Does it look silly when I string your thoughts together like that?

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Old 06-14-2013, 07:48 AM   #437
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No, it's not "silly". It's offensive to take statements out of context and mix them with lies. I realize it's funny to the peanut gallery, but the CVT mpg evidence shows it's a real problem.

And, the Impreza is in fact on CR's "best fuel economy" in the hatchback category - the 5 speed version, not the CVT. Neither made the list of "The most fuel-efficient cars".
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:12 AM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
No, it's not "silly". It's offensive to take statements out of context and mix them with lies. I realize it's funny to the peanut gallery, but the CVT mpg evidence shows it's a real problem.

And, the Impreza is in fact on CR's "best fuel economy" in the hatchback category - the 5 speed version, not the CVT. Neither made the list of "The most fuel-efficient cars".
Sorry, I am not sure which statements you think are merely out of context, and which are lies? Please point those distinctions out to me, that parody of your posts is based upon, wait for it, your actual posts!

You do realize that parody is protected as free speech? That shows like the Daily Show, and Colbert Report use it endlessly to amuse others?

And that you are engaged in a discussion on NASIOC, not STEVENHNMNASIOC?

And that nothing I wrote was a "quote", just my regurgitation of your various spin -- for example, paraphrasing "who me, I never said anything about a class action" vs "I filed a complaint with the EPA", so that means you are seeking personal recognition? Not seeking remediation that would affect all CVT owners? How do you go about that, exactly?

As far as the Impreza being on CR's "best fuel economy" list. LOLOLOLOL

It must have been very painful for you to write that! I guess you were afraid some other subscriber was going to reference it, so you decided to get it out there in the open and try and deflate the praise...

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Old 06-14-2013, 04:07 PM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
No, it's not "silly". It's offensive to take statements out of context and mix them with lies. I realize it's funny to the peanut gallery, but the CVT mpg evidence shows it's a real problem.

And, the Impreza is in fact on CR's "best fuel economy" in the hatchback category - the 5 speed version, not the CVT. Neither made the list of "The most fuel-efficient cars".
Could you please point out to me that cvt mpg evidence that you are referring to?
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:48 AM   #440
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Could you please point out to me that cvt mpg evidence that you are referring to?
Sure. You could go back 439 posts from here and click on the link. Or, you could just go to the original post in this thread and do the same thing.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:53 AM   #441
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You do realize that parody is protected as free speech? That shows like the Daily Show, and Colbert Report use it endlessly to amuse others?
The delusion is becoming clearer. You are comparing yourself to Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert...

Sorry to disappoint you, but they are real wits. You are only halfway there.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:54 AM   #442
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You children are sill going at this?
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:27 AM   #443
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The delusion is becoming clearer. You are comparing yourself to Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert...

Sorry to disappoint you, but they are real wits. You are only halfway there.
With all your bluster and self-professed engineering genius you have yet to reply which statements I made are lies, and which are out of context, in that parody of your many posts.

Instead, you resort the argumentum ad hominem, the last refuge of a simpleton. C'mon, if you are as smart as you profess to be, you should be able to discuss the various ideas you have put forth, why not give it a go?

So you say Consumer Reports lists the Impreza on the "best fuel economy" list? LOL

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Old 06-15-2013, 08:26 AM   #444
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Yet Subaru has racked up more endorsements by independent arbiters of automotive quality and safety than just about any other manufacturer. Consumer Reports rates Subaru above Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and every other manufacturer in performance, comfort, utility, and reliability, and says the company makes the best cars in America. ALG (formerly Automotive Lease Guide), the industry’s arbiter of residual value and used-car prices, named Subaru the leader in retained value among mainstream brands. And after crash tests, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety made Subaru a “top safety pick” across its entire product line, a distinction no other manufacturer can claim.

I think CR likes the Scoobie!
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:55 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
you should be able to discuss the various ideas you have put forth, why not give it a go?

So you say Consumer Reports lists the Impreza on the "best fuel economy" list? LOL
I'm sure you know which are lies. If you don't you're sicker than I thought.

Why would I want to get into a discussion with you anyway? You will just distort and lie more. It's like flushing my time down a toilet that just keeps overflowing, putrefying everything around.

An example is your last statement. Yes, the Impreza made CR's best fuel economy list in the hatchback category. However, as I stated it was the 5-speed manual transmission version like you have, not the CVT version that you don't have. The CVT version didn't make it. Confused? Look back at the title of this thread.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:58 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
Yet Subaru has racked up more endorsements by independent arbiters of automotive quality and safety than just about any other manufacturer. Consumer Reports rates Subaru above Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and every other manufacturer in performance, comfort, utility, and reliability, and says the company makes the best cars in America. ALG (formerly Automotive Lease Guide), the industry’s arbiter of residual value and used-car prices, named Subaru the leader in retained value among mainstream brands. And after crash tests, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety made Subaru a “top safety pick” across its entire product line, a distinction no other manufacturer can claim.

I think CR likes the Scoobie!
I like the Impreza too, except for the CVT mpg. It's a great car.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #447
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Then quit bitching about it


Or don't, I really like reading the joke of the day, either way I win
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:28 AM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I'm sure you know which are lies. If you don't you're sicker than I thought.
I'm starting to think your definition of a lie is something that you don't like or agree with, whether it is truthful or not.

I have no idea what you think are lies, or misrepresentations of what you have written. Since you would rather try to kill the messenger than defend your ideas, I have to conclude that you are full of b.s.

I'm looking forward to your honest sharing of the EPA's final response to your MPG/EPA testing/Subaru misrepresentation claim.

Unfortunately it looks like you have lost the desire to be honest and forthcoming, as soon as you get questioned you start equivocating and engaging in argumentum ad hominem. I will let the 'peanut gallery' (which I guess consists of anyone here who asks you questions) judge which one of us is the half-wit. I already have my answer.

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Old 06-15-2013, 12:30 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Unfortunately it looks like you have lost the desire to be honest and forthcoming
I did? That's funny. Let me try this again.

I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
And, the Impreza is in fact on CR's "best fuel economy" in the hatchback category - the 5 speed version, not the CVT.
Then you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
So you say Consumer Reports lists the Impreza on the "best fuel economy" list? LOL
Then I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Yes, the Impreza made CR's best fuel economy list in the hatchback category. However, as I stated it was the 5-speed manual transmission version like you have, not the CVT version that you don't have. The CVT version didn't make it. Confused? Look back at the title of this thread.
To which, again, you replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Unfortunately it looks like you have lost the desire to be honest and forthcoming
I think that's plain enough.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:55 PM   #450
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Sorry, nothing I said was untrue, I quoted exactly what you quoted, CR now lists the redesigned Impreza on the "best fuel economy" list.

This is a direct quote of a true statement. The same car that you have already told us CR did not recommend for its "excellent fuel economy", though they did exactly that, previously: "Fuel economy is impressive given the standard all-wheel-drive".

Sounds like Consumer Reports doubled down on their praise, and you doubled down on your equivocation.

Try again...
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