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Old 07-28-2013, 11:53 PM   #626
G2Spfld
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
That's cool. But you don't have to be an engineer to "get it" - a real engineer (as opposed to a plug-and-chugger) will, and most other people can. I was referring to some people here not being able to look at facts and change their opinion.

"When my information changes, I change my mind. What do you do?"
(John Maynard Keynes)
I own businesses, needless to say I take issue with about 99% of what Keynes ever wrote. This might fall into the 1% as it wasn't contextually motivated per se.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:57 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by G-Omaha View Post
OK, I get it. Different drivers, using different driving methods, over different terrains, and at different speeds will get different MPG averages. This means that your graph is totally meaningless regardless of any sampling as they do not address any or all anomalies in the data collected and used as the basis for the statistics. I think that you are trying really hard to "fit" the "statistics" to you own conclusions - inane and maybe dishonest IMHO - stats, damned stats, and lies "type of thing" rings true to me.
So you think that if you get the information from all the "different drivers, using different driving methods, over different terrains, and at different speeds" it will mean nothing?

Sorry, but it will mean everything.

The question is how much does a partial collection of data mean, like with a half dozen people praising their CVT mpg on this forum, vs. hundreds of runs with professional drivers trying to drive each car the same way on the same loop, vs. thousands of data points. At some point one should admit the compilation of data is converging on the truth.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:06 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I was referring to some people here not being able to look at facts and change their opinion.

"When my information changes, I change my mind. What do you do?"
(John Maynard Keynes)
This is probably one of the most self-unaware posts that you have written.

You are trying to prove to the rest of us that your poor mileage is a fault with the way the CVT is engineered, and the tuning of the car, and every other factor that is totally out of your control...

While you have admitted that, due to the immense value of your time, you drive the car at speeds exceeding 70mph (I seem to recall it was more like average speeds of 75mph -- don't some of your highways have 85mph speed limits?) and drive up and down some pretty significant grades (one portion of your drive, I forgot the name of the mesa, has a wikipedia entry that tells us the grade is so steep early pioneers had a hard time navigating it)...

But yes, it is all the fault of the Subaru engineers, and the EPA testing...

Meanwhile, on a planet closer to home, ours, many NASIOC owners drive their CVT in a style that more closely approximates the EPA testing, and get the Window Sticker numbers, or better...And you are never going to convince them that all your spin on "facts" is right.

Thanks for the quote, now sit still and ponder what you wrote...
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:12 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
Bottom line is no matter how hard you try to prove it, not everybody with a cvt will get poor milage.
Any data that does not confirm his beliefs is automatically discarded...

Now he can read his quote again, and pretend it applies to us, and not him...
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:34 AM   #630
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Any data that does not confirm his beliefs is automatically discarded...
LOL What data did you say you had? A half dozen anecdotes? I recall your sentence on a little poll we had:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
So we have 32 respondents, including me, and about 80,000 Imprezas on the road.

I think it is safe to say we can start drawing conclusions from this data!
So you would dispute that but use a handful of quotes for your position...

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Like I keep saying, some of them are okay. Some are not.
And the initial information I had, that my other car, rated the same 36 mpg highway according to the EPA method, exceeds my Impreza's mpg by about 30%.

What do you have for personal experience? Oh yeah, you don't.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:37 PM   #631
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LOL What data did you say you had? A half dozen anecdotes? I recall your sentence on a little poll we had:



So you would dispute that but use a handful of quotes for your position...

LMAO, I guess you don't recognize sarcasm!

I think the brighter members of NASIOC knew that for what it was, try again (the big clue was the context, and the popcorn munching, read it again, in the thread where you found it, and see if you can figure it out, I'll be here when you get back).

It might help if you read the entire thread, it was a discussion about the percent of cars burning oil, which I believe is very low, so that might tell you why I think a sample size that small is irrelevant. Maybe not...


Last edited by Zeeper; 07-29-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:46 PM   #632
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LOL What data did you say you had? A half dozen anecdotes?
Well let's see, there are many members on this very thread, who drive CVT's, and get EPA HWY numbers, who have been telling you as much.

What makes you think your anecdotal reporting is any more valid than theirs? Are you smarter and better looking than they are?
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:45 PM   #633
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Ok seriously.. how much longer is this going to keep up. This car does pretty good on the highway and fairly crappy than expected (or advertised ) elsewhere.

Though rated at an AVG 30mpg..... in most 'normal' conditions you'll probably be looking somewhere around 25/27 mpgs. Does that suck if you had high hopes for better numbers? yes.. so what to do next? keep car or get rid of it. It still produced some of the best MPG's for an AWD vehicle by far. I mean after a while you have to just cut your losses if you are that disappointed or leave it be.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:35 PM   #634
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Maybe a bit off topic here- but oh well...
I rode in an 09' scion xb this weekend. Its my friends wife's car. What a turd!!!!
I thought my 12 impreza was loud,squeaky, and all that. Man- even the back seat sqeaks and moans in those pos cars. And she only gets 25-30 mpg.... Lame
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:58 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Well let's see, there are many members on this very thread, who drive CVT's, and get EPA HWY numbers, who have been telling you as much.

What makes you think your anecdotal reporting is any more valid than theirs? Are you smarter and better looking than they are?
Smarter maybe but not better looking
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:01 PM   #636
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Ok seriously.. how much longer is this going to keep up. This car does pretty good on the highway and fairly crappy than expected (or advertised ) elsewhere.

Though rated at an AVG 30mpg..... in most 'normal' conditions you'll probably be looking somewhere around 25/27 mpgs. Does that suck if you had high hopes for better numbers? yes.. so what to do next? keep car or get rid of it. It still produced some of the best MPG's for an AWD vehicle by far. I mean after a while you have to just cut your losses if you are that disappointed or leave it be.
I have been averaging 33+ over the last 12000 miles, and a good chunk of that was during a nice cold Canadian winter.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:06 PM   #637
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I can't wait till winter since you mentioned it
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:22 PM   #638
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slightly off topic but you fuel conscious folks will know the answer, i think

how much fuel is left when the last bar on the fuel gage goes out, or does it go out at all?

...just hit the last bar this morning and out of laziness (i never run it this low) and wanting to have a full tank when i take off for a short road trip at the end of the week, i'm trying to avoid filling up until then since i drive very little on the week days (just my 4-5 mi trip to and from the train station, although with probably 24-25mpg average which such poor driving conditions)

thanks!
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:17 PM   #639
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For me it goes out with 140 km left as per the estimate range gauge. At 50 km, the range reading disappear and i have driven a good 20 km past that to reach a gas station. All this to say that depending on the speed you drive at you are probably good for another 50 to 70 miles.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:10 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by nubsub View Post
slightly off topic but you fuel conscious folks will know the answer, i think

how much fuel is left when the last bar on the fuel gage goes out, or does it go out at all?

...just hit the last bar this morning and out of laziness (i never run it this low) and wanting to have a full tank when i take off for a short road trip at the end of the week, i'm trying to avoid filling up until then since i drive very little on the week days (just my 4-5 mi trip to and from the train station, although with probably 24-25mpg average which such poor driving conditions)

thanks!
It does go out. Then you have about 2 gallons left (if you are lucky). I would suggest that you don't let it "run out of gas" as that is very unfriendly to the injectors (read - may cost $$$'s to fix). Just put in an additional gallon or two until you depart on your trip - problem solved, no need to "fill up" at this time.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:16 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by G-Omaha View Post
It does go out. Then you have about 2 gallons left (if you are lucky). I would suggest that you don't let it "run out of gas" as that is very unfriendly to the injectors (read - may cost $$$'s to fix). Just put in an additional gallon or two until you depart on your trip - problem solved, no need to "fill up" at this time.
thanks, guys. i do know the dangers of running low. i never get that low. my hope/expectation is that i'll have the light go out just when i need to fill up. 1.5-2 gallons left, while not my standard practice, is IMHO no going too far down.

i just wanted to have a little more grounding based on others' experiences.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:51 AM   #642
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For me it goes out with 140 km left as per the estimate range gauge. At 50 km, the range reading disappear and i have driven a good 20 km past that to reach a gas station. All this to say that depending on the speed you drive at you are probably good for another 50 to 70 miles.
I once stretched mine on the highway right to the limit, sort of on purpose. I drove by one station to get to a cheaper one. When I filled up, she took almost 56L...
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:42 AM   #643
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Wow, 51 something is the most i ever put in.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:24 AM   #644
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14.89 GAL (56.4 L) is the most I've ever done. I calculated that I should have enough to get to my next destination, and the light went on with ~70 miles to go (2.2 GAL iirc). I figured i had enough to get to the gas station, I did! I did slow down to like 65 mph on the interstate though from what I recal lol...

Plenty of times I've done 13.5-14.5 GAL (51-55 L). I do take into consideration if ALL my miles have been highway, and figure a little safe from there. My displayed MPG on the dash is pretty much spot on. When I calculate or enter into Fuelly it's slightly off, but that's just the odometer error. Over 15k miles I'm fairly trusting of the mpg meter to tell me my range, not the range to empty, but the mpg, and myself figuring range to empty (not totally empty, but close).
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:57 AM   #645
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14.89 GAL (56.4 L) is the most I've ever done. I calculated that I should have enough to get to my next destination, and the light went on with ~70 miles to go (2.2 GAL iirc). I figured i had enough to get to the gas station, I did! I did slow down to like 65 mph on the interstate though from what I recal lol...

Plenty of times I've done 13.5-14.5 GAL (51-55 L). I do take into consideration if ALL my miles have been highway, and figure a little safe from there. My displayed MPG on the dash is pretty much spot on. When I calculate or enter into Fuelly it's slightly off, but that's just the odometer error. Over 15k miles I'm fairly trusting of the mpg meter to tell me my range, not the range to empty, but the mpg, and myself figuring range to empty (not totally empty, but close).
Your fuel pump hates you
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:00 PM   #646
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Ya, the 14.89 fill-up was a bit low, and probably hard on the pump (<1 gal left in tank), but the 13.5-14.5 fill-ups still have 1-2.5 gallons in the tank, and those are pretty much all long highway trips.

If I were only in town I wouldn't usually let it get that low. Only 1-2 times have my city driving fill-ups been at all above 13.5 gallons, and even then it has only been 13.6 and 13.8.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:28 PM   #647
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Isn't it a 55 litre tank though?
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:49 PM   #648
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Ya, the 14.89 fill-up was a bit low, and probably hard on the pump (<1 gal left in tank), but the 13.5-14.5 fill-ups still have 1-2.5 gallons in the tank, and those are pretty much all long highway trips.

If I were only in town I wouldn't usually let it get that low. Only 1-2 times have my city driving fill-ups been at all above 13.5 gallons, and even then it has only been 13.6 and 13.8.
could of sworn it was a 14.5gallon tank
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #649
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could of sworn it was a 14.5gallon tank
Yeah, so i guess there's about a litre and one half on the ground somewhere or the gas tank filling spout accounts for the extra.

It's not good to fill your vehicle gas tank right to the cap you know!
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:20 PM   #650
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Yep, I ALWAYS stop at the very first click. I never fill past that.
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