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Old 04-09-2013, 09:04 AM   #201
aeoporta
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:11 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
#1 I have a 2012 CVT so maybe I'm qualified to post.
#2 I hate statistics. They can be manipulated to show whatever you want.
#3 These numbers are from Consumer reports printed edittion that I have.

first number is Consumer reports MPG. The last 3 numbers are city-average-highway for EPA.

Subaru Impreza Prem _____27_____27-30-36
Mazda 3 Skyactive (auto) _____32_____28-33-40
Mazda 3 Grand Tour(2.0) _____25_____25-28-33
Ford Focus SFE (auto) _____31_____28-33-40
Chevy Cruze Eco _____27_____26-31-39
Chevy Cruze _____26_____26-30-38
Ford Focus SE(auto) _____28_____27-31-38
Honda Civic _____29_____28-32-39
Toyota Corolla(MT) _____32_____27-30-34
Jetta TDI _____34_____30-34-42
Dodge Dart _____27_____27-31-37
Jetta (2.5) _____25_____24-26-31

Yes the Subaru number is lower than some. But matches the City EPA number. Most others are within 1 or 2 of the City Number.
Big deal?!?! I think not. Its very close to what most cars return for MPG.
I'm not so concerned about city mpg since the vast majority of my driving is on the highway, but I can't find this list in the magazine. Which issue is it in?
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:54 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
He does not know this, remember his theory is that the 5 speed does better for mpg's than the CVT ...
Not my theory - Fuelly numbers. Remember Fuelly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
According to Fuelly, looking over the past 5 years, ...
(Same day. We must have two Zeepers...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatHorse View Post
For anyone who wants to do analysis with more data, here are the last 20 fuel-ups for every driver of a 2012/2013 Impreza from fuelly.
Did you get far enough in your statistics class to handle this yet?
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:08 AM   #204
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Must not of got enough answers yesterday to continue trolling. Just watch, if no one responds to his bait for a few days he will venture out of mpg topics and attempt to bait others about poor mpg in other completely unrelated topics....it has happened before....
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:01 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I'm not so concerned about city mpg since the vast majority of my driving is on the highway, but I can't find this list in the magazine. Which issue is it in?

2013 auto issue. Published in "April" I believe, but was mailed in March some time.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ssue/index.htm
Has a big "Best & Worst Cars of 2013" for a cover title.

There are many pages with a paragraph or so of info on the new models. It also includes the CR retruned MPG. The EPA numbers come from Edmunds. The Consumer Reports MPG is not based on City or Highway. They had an explaination of how they determine their MPG. I believe they have a fixed loop they drive on public roads and try to maintain the same speeds, wind, and tempatures.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:37 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
2013 auto issue. Published in "April" I believe, but was mailed in March some time.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ssue/index.htm
Has a big "Best & Worst Cars of 2013" for a cover title.

There are many pages with a paragraph or so of info on the new models. It also includes the CR retruned MPG. The EPA numbers come from Edmunds. The Consumer Reports MPG is not based on City or Highway. They had an explaination of how they determine their MPG. I believe they have a fixed loop they drive on public roads and try to maintain the same speeds, wind, and tempatures.
I have the April with that cover. I don't have that list though. I have a list including a lot of those and many more (18 total) on page 29. What page did you get that list from, or did you just pick a few from different lists?

P.S. They discontinued their "150 mile loop" test due to erratic results. Now they have their city and highway mpg tests.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:20 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I have the April with that cover. I don't have that list though. I have a list including a lot of those and many more (18 total) on page 29. What page did you get that list from, or did you just pick a few from different lists?

P.S. They discontinued their "150 mile loop" test due to erratic results. Now they have their city and highway mpg tests.
I took the numbers from page 40-71 in the "Profiles". I took comparable cars and build my own list.

The MPG according to the key on page 40 says the "CR mpg is our fuel mileage for models we've tested recently, based on a realistic mix of highway, county-road, and city driving."
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:14 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post

I took the numbers from page 40-71 in the "Profiles". I took comparable cars and build my own list.

The MPG according to the key on page 40 says the "CR mpg is our fuel mileage for models we've tested recently, based on a realistic mix of highway, county-road, and city driving."
So is it safe to say their testing is unbiased and representative of real world driving conditions?
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:00 PM   #209
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So is it safe to say their testing is unbiased and representative of real world driving conditions?
Ya'll gonna have to give Stevehnm some time to redo the numbers into something resembling what he wants them to prove!

Two or three standard deviations, blah blah blah

"I can't drive....55", Sammy Hagar.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:04 PM   #210
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Ya'll gonna have to give Stevehnm some time to redo the numbers into something resembling what he wants them to prove!

Zeeper, that not fair; however, it is a very fair observation and conclusion. Stats, Damn Stats, and Lies...
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:22 PM   #211
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If you "build your own list" you are cherry picking. I used all the data from Consumer Reports of vehicles they reported 35 mpg highway with this year. That is the opposite of cherry picking. But, hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if one has to build it oneself.

I did get this back from the EPA today: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding your Subaru’s fuel economy being lower than the EPA rating. I also was forwarded the more detailed letter you sent to _________. It is an interesting and thoughtful analysis of the data. We do make note of such consumer complaints and take such information into consideration in future activities. I cannot comment or promise anything more than that at this time

Gee, it sounds like they know what outliers are!

I wonder if there is a group like this where to post one needs a certain level of ability. That requirement (beyond the 5th grade level) is obviously lacking here...
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
If you "build your own list" you are cherry picking. I used all the data from Consumer Reports of vehicles they reported 35 mpg highway with this year. That is the opposite of cherry picking. But, hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if one has to build it oneself.
I'd call it cherry picking only if I picked cars based on the mpg numbers. I picked them on cars in similar price and that I (or others) might buy. I'm sure I could have added a few more. I picked a few common everyday cars to show that many don't get the EPA MPG and the CR MPG was low on many of them. Yet it is true some do get better MPG.

Subaru isn't the only car that CR had a low MPG with and not all cars get better MPG based on some statistical number game.

If you picked all and only cars with 35mpg highway why is the Impreza in the list?

Besides its way too cold and snowy here in Minneapolis to even look for cherries. A subaru that makes it up the hill in the snow is better than any car that is stuck half way up. MPG sitting still and spinning the wheels is zero.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
I'd call it cherry picking only if I picked cars based on the mpg numbers. I picked them on cars in similar price and that I (or others) might buy. I'm sure I could have added a few more. I picked a few common everyday cars to show that many don't get the EPA MPG and the CR MPG was low on many of them. Yet it is true some do get better MPG.

Subaru isn't the only car that CR had a low MPG with and not all cars get better MPG based on some statistical number game.

If you picked all and only cars with 35mpg highway why is the Impreza in the list?

Besides its way too cold and snowy here in Minneapolis to even look for cherries. A subaru that makes it up the hill in the snow is better than any car that is stuck half way up. MPG sitting still and spinning the wheels is zero.
i agree with jd, and that's what led to my prior post commenting about "cherry picking." i think we can pick a variety of numbers that suit our own purposes/circumstances.

i think the numbers used for comparison depend on the context of the person evaluating. for someone like me and jd, we are interested in the real world performance of similar small cars. i am interested if the Honda Civic, for example, does much better than the EPA ratings for combined/city than the Impreza, because that is a competing car i considered.

in contrast, for steve, he's concerned with highway numbers and perhaps would have bought the Lexus ES350 and gotten similar mileage (although probably requiring premium fuel) although the car is in a very different price class.

neither perspective is wrong, per se. but each are "cherry picked" to satisfy one's own vantage point. even if we took ALL cars into consideration (and still used CR), one would still need to determine which number mattered the most to them: City/Combined/Highway... (and of course, this would again throw cost, functionality (truck vs car; AWD vs FWD, for e.g.), and other things out of the picture.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:57 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
If you "build your own list" you are cherry picking. I used all the data from Consumer Reports of vehicles they reported 35 mpg highway with this year. That is the opposite of cherry picking. But, hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if one has to build it oneself.

I did get this back from the EPA today: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding your Subaruís fuel economy being lower than the EPA rating. I also was forwarded the more detailed letter you sent to _________. It is an interesting and thoughtful analysis of the data. We do make note of such consumer complaints and take such information into consideration in future activities. I cannot comment or promise anything more than that at this time

Gee, it sounds like they know what outliers are!

I wonder if there is a group like this where to post one needs a certain level of ability. That requirement (beyond the 5th grade level) is obviously lacking here...
so how would you classify your corolla....

i believe the term you are looking for is outlier..
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:13 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
If you picked all and only cars with 35mpg highway why is the Impreza in the list?
I took all the cars CR tested and rated at 35 mpg highway on their test. There were 13, including the Impreza CVT. 12 were rated at 30 mpg highway EPA plus or minus 2. The Impreza is "rated" at 36 mpg highway EPA.

If you pick some here and some there it's called cherry picking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
Besides its way too cold and snowy here in Minneapolis to even look for cherries. A subaru that makes it up the hill in the snow is better than any car that is stuck half way up. MPG sitting still and spinning the wheels is zero.
Quite true, and a good reason to buy a Subaru.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I took all the cars CR tested and rated at 35 mpg highway on their test. There were 13, including the Impreza CVT. 12 were rated at 30 mpg highway EPA plus or minus 2. The Impreza is "rated" at 36 mpg highway EPA.

If you pick some here and some there it's called cherry picking.

Quite true, and a good reason to buy a Subaru.

I didn't pick here or there. I picked what I might buy. BMW, Lexus, Volvo and many others don't make the list. The list has main stream everyday cars with very high sales volume.

My point was that MANY cars hand picked or not, might not retrun EPA mpg given what might be an arbutary test of fuel mileage.

For me (CVT owner) the Impreza easily retruns EPA numbers with the last tank being roughly 34.5mpg hand calculated. Actual mpg might be slightly higher if odometer error is factored in.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:51 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
I didn't pick here or there. I picked what I might buy. BMW, Lexus, Volvo and many others don't make the list. The list has main stream everyday cars with very high sales volume.

My point was that MANY cars hand picked or not, might not retrun EPA mpg given what might be an arbutary test of fuel mileage.

For me (CVT owner) the Impreza easily retruns EPA numbers with the last tank being roughly 34.5mpg hand calculated. Actual mpg might be slightly higher if odometer error is factored in.
Is your CVT a PZEV? Just curious. Ty
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:54 PM   #218
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So, I've been running 91 octane in my car for the last month, and the last fuel-up was the second time (of six tanks) since switching to 91 octane that my car consumed more than 9 litres per 100 km (that's approximately 26 MPG for you folks south of the 49th Parallel) - hand calculated. The driving was generally the same as the last number of tanks that were 91 octane, so I would say the thing that made the biggest impact on the fuel consumption was the rainy weather.

Why rainy weather? Two primary reasons: (1) people see moisture on the ground and suddenly forget how to drive - accidents and ultra-slow traffic usually being the result, and (2) there's a need to keep the windshield vent running to clear all the fogging up of condensation on the windshield (drawing upon the a/c). I think the a/c is actually the biggest drain here, sucks the fuel back like me with beer on a binge-drinking run. It's also something I mentioned as a factor in this post earlier on in this thread.

Just food for thought.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:31 PM   #219
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27mpg. 95% city commute. Some AC with the warmer weather.
317.2 miles. 28.8 mpg on the dash. 24 mph avg. 13277 on odo. No hypermiling, just going with the flow.
Hitting the city numbers pretty solidly these days with my city commute.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:05 PM   #220
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I fueled up before I started my journey today and I drove from Myrtle Beach, SC to Savannah, GA and used 1/4 tank...I'll let you google or mapquest the miles to see how good it was since I forgot to record the mileage when I arrived and I've driven since then.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:54 PM   #221
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I fueled up before I started my journey today and I drove from Myrtle Beach, SC to Savannah, GA and used 1/4 tank...I'll let you google or mapquest the miles to see how good it was since I forgot to record the mileage when I arrived and I've driven since then.
Well, let's see... Google Maps says 227 miles, one quarter of 14.5 gallons...

Not bad! 63 mpg! Zeeper will be proud!

Edit: Of course then again he's been gone for three days. Maybe he just realized he doesn't have a CVT... No, actually he's been spending more time over on an oil consumption thread - trolling another problem he doesn't have...

Last edited by stevehnm; 04-15-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:23 PM   #222
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1/4th tank using the "little boxes" is not accurate at all. Without a "fill" it is totally impossible to determine MPG - or maybe it's just an outliar.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:23 AM   #223
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Is your CVT a PZEV? Just curious. Ty
Yes its a PZEV.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:10 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Well, let's see... Google Maps says 227 miles, one quarter of 14.5 gallons...

Not bad! 63 mpg! Zeeper will be proud!

Edit: Of course then again he's been gone for three days. Maybe he just realized he doesn't have a CVT... No, actually he's been spending more time over on an oil consumption thread - trolling another problem he doesn't have...
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Omaha View Post
1/4th tank using the "little boxes" is not accurate at all. Without a "fill" it is totally impossible to determine MPG - or maybe it's just an outliar.
Ok, first of all, I wasn't trying to claim I got XX amount of MPGs, I was just making an observation at how many miles I was able to drive on an "indicated" 1/4 tank of gas.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:07 PM   #225
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How do you fill? Stop at first click? Add more past that? Top off? Just wondering if that first quarter was actually higher than a spot on "full" tank.

My gauge is usually pretty close. I add another click after the first click.
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