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View Poll Results: Manual vs CVT Impreza MPG
MT Pure Highway 20-22 1 1.92%
MT Pure Highway 23-25 1 1.92%
MT Pure Highway 26-28 2 3.85%
MT Pure Highway 29-31 3 5.77%
MT Pure Highway 32-34 1 1.92%
MT Pure Highway 35-37 5 9.62%
MT Pure Highway 38-40+ 2 3.85%
CVT Pure Highway 20-22 0 0%
CVT Pure Highway 23-25 0 0%
CVT Pure Highway 26-28 1 1.92%
CVT Pure Highway 29-31 3 5.77%
CVT Pure Highway 32-34 6 11.54%
CVT Pure Highway 35-37 5 9.62%
CVT Pure Highway 38-40+ 3 5.77%
MT Mixed 20-22 0 0%
MT Mixed 23-25 2 3.85%
MT Mixed 26-28 5 9.62%
MT Mixed 29-31 9 17.31%
MT Mixed 32-34 4 7.69%
MT Mixed 35-37 1 1.92%
MT Mixed 38-40+ 0 0%
CVT Mixed 20-22 0 0%
CVT Mixed 23-25 5 9.62%
CVT Mixed 26-28 10 19.23%
CVT Mixed 29-31 10 19.23%
CVT Mixed 32-34 2 3.85%
CVT Mixed 35-37 1 1.92%
CVT Mixed 38-40+ 0 0%
MT Pure City 17-19 0 0%
MT Pure City 20-22 0 0%
MT Pure City 23-25 4 7.69%
MT Pure City 26-28 3 5.77%
MT Pure City 29-31 1 1.92%
MT Pure City 32-34 0 0%
MT Pure City 35-37+ 0 0%
CVT Pure City 17-19 0 0%
CVT Pure City 20-22 1 1.92%
CVT Pure City 23-25 8 15.38%
CVT Pure City 26-28 2 3.85%
CVT Pure City 29-31 1 1.92%
CVT Pure City 32-34 0 0%
CVT Pure City 35-37+ 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #51
myrt1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
If the Impreza is ramen noodles, then the CVT Impreza is ramen noodles without the seasoning packet.
Haha nice

I dont always eat Ramen noodles, but when I do, I add the seasoning packet.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fistv View Post
Might want to pick up one of these http://www.automatic.com/
I pre-ordered one of those. It seems a little expensive, but it has a nice design and afaik is the only real solution for iOS to date.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by fistv View Post
Might want to pick up one of these http://www.automatic.com/
Uhhh

"The Automatic Link talks to your car's onboard computer and uses your smartphone's GPS and data plan to upgrade your car's capabilities."

Gonna call shenanigans on this one.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by foghelmut View Post
Uhhh

"The Automatic Link talks to your car's onboard computer and uses your smartphone's GPS and data plan to upgrade your car's capabilities."

Gonna call shenanigans on this one.
Maybe, there is a more expensive one that does a lot more. http://www.dashboss.com/

There was one that you could velcro to your dash, ~$149 and thinkgeek used to carry it, can't find it now but it also came with a bezel so you could recess it, allowed you to reset the codes too. I want one that will show me engine temps, oil pressure and voltage I have an older itouch I don't use much anymore, might be a candidate for something like this. I have an old addtron for codes but it does not do anything but display them and allow you to reset the CEL, worked fine on my three jeeps but it may be time for something better.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:26 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
Haha nice

I dont always eat Ramen noodles, but when I do, I add the seasoning packet.
Completely OT here, but have you read the "nutrition value" information on the ramen packaging? (Or do they have that down in the States?) The amount of sodium in one of those things is enough for most of a day's worth per the daily recommended intake value.

Nasty stuff. I've trimmed back on eating that **** (as in down to once per month, if at all).

Anyways, we now return you to the regular MT vs. CVT crusading.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #56
myrt1987
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Originally Posted by lymphomaniac View Post
Completely OT here, but have you read the "nutrition value" information on the ramen packaging? (Or do they have that down in the States?) The amount of sodium in one of those things is enough for most of a day's worth per the daily recommended intake value.

Nasty stuff. I've trimmed back on eating that **** (as in down to once per month, if at all).

Anyways, we now return you to the regular MT vs. CVT crusading.
Haha thats why I dont use the packet. I add my own seasoning. But I also rarely have it. In the college days ... thats a different story. lol




On topic: Im surprised the cvt is actually getting lower mpg than MT. I thought the problem only existed with a few cvt-ers.

On the other hand, if fuelly cvt shows better mpg then mt counterpart, then I guess the people on here are just brainwashed by stevehnm and his lackies. jk steve
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
On the other hand, if fuelly cvt shows better mpg then mt counterpart, then I guess the people on here are just brainwashed by stevehnm and his lackies. jk steve
I have no doubt that manuals normally return better mileage, but the high final drive ratio (probably not the right term) of the CVT is where the difference lies. My WRX was turning ~3,000 rpm at 75 while my XV with CVT lopes along at ~2,200 at the same speed. Injectors firing less often flow less fuel, you just can't get around that.

It is harder to get good mileage out of an automatic though, due to unintended downshifts.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by richde View Post

I have no doubt that manuals normally return better mileage, but the high final drive ratio (probably not the right term) of the CVT is where the difference lies. My WRX was turning ~3,000 rpm at 75 while my XV with CVT lopes along at ~2,200 at the same speed. Injectors firing less often flow less fuel, you just can't get around that.

It is harder to get good mileage out of an automatic though, due to unintended downshifts.
The gear ratio difference isn't the only difference to consider. The CVT loses some efficiency because it slips, like all automatics do. Once you're out of first gear in a manual, there is no slipping unless you're riding the clutch.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:22 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
The gear ratio difference isn't the only difference to consider. The CVT loses some efficiency because it slips, like all automatics do. Once you're out of first gear in a manual, there is no slipping unless you're riding the clutch.

The CVT DOES NOT SLIP. Ever. If it ever did, it will instantly destroy the sheaves.

The Torque Converter DOES slip, when it's programming calls for slippage. Like when starting out from a stop, and when the tranny oil is cold.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:25 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
The CVT DOES NOT SLIP. Ever. If it ever did, it will instantly destroy the sheaves.
Yes it does, a CVT wouldn't work without friction loss.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:35 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post

Blah Blah Blah

So for him 5 speeds do better than CVT's for MPG's, that is a fact!
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
He only likes to see what he wants, not reality
The ankle biters are out on this one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatHorse View Post
For anyone who wants to do analysis with more data, here are the last 20 fuel-ups for every driver of a 2012/2013 Impreza from fuelly. As of this morning the data includes 276 drivers and 3,931 fill-ups. Data includes transmission types and per-driver averages as well.
CVT average 27.3
MT5 average 27.8

For those like zipperlips and the fly hunter, if you can't do the math stay out of the kitchen...
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:03 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
Yes it does, a CVT wouldn't work without friction loss.
I don't know that much about them (but I'm thinking I'm about to learn) but I would say for the old mechanical ones that's true, but for the new generation ones with electronic sensing etc. the slippage might be infinitesimal.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:27 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
The ankle biters are out on this one...



CVT average 27.3
MT5 average 27.8

For those like zipperlips and the fly hunter, if you can't do the math stay out of the kitchen...
Your argument is completely invalid because it does not account for the role of the driver, or the type of driving.

For all we know the average fuelly user with a 5 speed drives like me (about 65mph on the highway) and does fewer city miles and the typical fuelly user with a CVT drives up a steep mountain at 70+mph, or is someone who drives it for short distances in the city with a cold engine (don't cha think someone driving in the city would more likely purchase a CVT? insert dope slap here).

Until we have the same driver, on the highway, test both a 5 speed and a CVT, both using cruise at a set speed, you cannot draw the conclusions that you want to draw using the data you want to use.

Science, math, and reasoning are not your forte, how did you ever get to be an engineer? Or are you the engineer who sits in trains?
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:21 AM   #64
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Man theres nothing like oil or mpg's to bring out the arguments/ insults.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:31 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Your argument is completely invalid because (fill in the blank but don't quote my previous posts)
Your ability (in your own mind anyway) to jump around in your arguments like a circus monkey would be amusing, were it not for the fact that your dishonesty and ignorance of the CVT's performance continues to contradict real world testing and attempts to appease doubts about the EPA rating that was done, yes, by Subaru themselves. You must own a lot of Subaru stock. We should call this Zippergate.

You continue to link to a Consumer Reports video about how great the car is, then when it is shown that in their own tests the CVT gets the same highway mpg as a dozen other cars that get 30 +/- 2 mpg in EPA tests so that's what it really should be rated at you ignore the facts and just continue to link to the video that says nothing about their mpg testing.

You link to fuelly.com and say "look, the CVT meets the mixed driving EPA rating" yet when shown that even on fuelly the manual transmission gets better mpg than the CVT you then discount fuelly.

How low can you go? Never mind, that was a rhetorical question.

P.S. The most egregious thing is that you do all this without even having a CVT.

Last edited by stevehnm; 03-23-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:12 PM   #66
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The experiences documented in Fuely are not "testing" in any way, shape of form. Then there's the huge differences in sample size and the what should be obvious evidence that a good number of CVT drivers either have no idea how to, or plainly don't want to, drive in anything close to an efficient manner.

I do have an idea how you could get mpg in the low-20's, or even 19 in two cases, but I have no idea why you'd want to. Unless there's some strange circumstance, that's not just wasteful driving, it's bad driving.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #67
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We already have fully verified testing results of which car gets better MPG in strictly controlled conditions...
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
blah blah blah baseless personal attacks etc etc
I get great mpg in my car when I drive like the epa. I actually surpass the epa rating when I drive like the epa.

It's amazing that you keep coming back and making the claims you do. Definition of insanity anyone?

Maybe next time the whole forum will rise up in arms with you! Keep trying.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:11 PM   #69
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Why is there people in the same category voting for multiple MPG choices?? Kinda defeats the purpose of trying to see "real world numbers" doesn't it??
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:32 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Your ability (in your own mind anyway) to jump around in your arguments like a circus monkey would be amusing, were it not for the fact that your dishonesty and ignorance of the CVT's performance continues to contradict real world testing and attempts to appease doubts about the EPA rating that was done, yes, by Subaru themselves. You must own a lot of Subaru stock. We should call this Zippergate.

You continue to link to a Consumer Reports video about how great the car is, then when it is shown that in their own tests the CVT gets the same highway mpg as a dozen other cars that get 30 +/- 2 mpg in EPA tests so that's what it really should be rated at you ignore the facts and just continue to link to the video that says nothing about their mpg testing.

You link to fuelly.com and say "look, the CVT meets the mixed driving EPA rating" yet when shown that even on fuelly the manual transmission gets better mpg than the CVT you then discount fuelly.

How low can you go? Never mind, that was a rhetorical question.

P.S. The most egregious thing is that you do all this without even having a CVT.
+1
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:53 PM   #71
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1) Consumer Reports has as a long term test vehicle, that get this, is a 2012 Impreza with a CVT!

After a year of driving their CVT around, they recommended the 2013 as a best buy, praising its "excellent mpg for an AWD car" (this is the second year in a row they recommended the car, and praised its mileage).

Your spreadsheets (using the CR data to prove ??) are a legend in your own mind, Consumer Reports seems pretty pleased with the redesigned impreza.

2) The more I think about the wide disparity of the CVT mileage shown on fully (low 20's to mid 30's) the more I think my theory about the average being unreliable is a good one.

If someone lives where bumper to bumper traffic is their reality, they are MORE likely to buy a CVT. We have ample evidence to show that short drives starting with a cold engine provide horrible mileage. However, the fact that, on fuelly, when the transmission is identified, the majority of the cars returning to highest mpg's are CVT's also confirms my theory, that on the highway there is no way the 5 speed provides better highway mileage than a CVT driving at the same highway speeds with the cruise on.

You have already told us that you think the 5 speed provides better mileage than the CVT, but then again, using your logic, you don't own a 5 speed so follow your own advice, and shut up already about something you clearly are wrong about.

3) My drive today (non-typical for me) was a 200 mile round trip from Albany to western Massachusetts (route 43 one way, I-90 the return trip).

With snow tires, and winter blend gas: Average MPG=32.1, average speed = 48 mph.

Guess what, driving from Springfield to Blandford (basically climbing constantly to the highest point on the Mass Pike) returned a piddling 25mpg at 65mph.

But since I was driving with my cruise set at 65mph for the entirety of the highway portion of my drive, and not 80, I got excellent mileage overall.

No wonder none of the complainers actually want to test their CVT on the highway at 65mph with cruise on, it shreds your argument to pieces, unless you are climbing a mountain (yes, the berkshires are just a hill compared to the Rockies, but a mountain by definition).


On a side note a young couple passed me driving a TDI jetta, and I realized that I no longer have any VW envy. I love my subaru and could only think "I wonder if their fuel pump is gonna explode and give them am $8,000 dollar repair?"

Stevenhm, I recommend you buy a TDI, I hear they have great torque and provide the mileage you need...there is also a great forum for them that you can spam!

Last edited by Zeeper; 03-23-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:39 PM   #72
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+1
+2
I learned to just juit trying to argue with those playing "lawyer" for subaru. God forbid sn ill word is spoken of this wunderturd.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:47 PM   #73
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And why does everyone bring up the lousy tdi everytime someone has a complaint or problem with their impreza? I know the tdi wasnt even on my radar of cars to look at when I was car shopping. Is it the fact that the tdi's are bad news and its easy to just say "at least you dont have a tdi"?
Our secretary has one thats two years old. shes only put 30k+/- on it, but it gets her to work every day and she likes it a lot. Me- I'm just not a big fan of the tdi, although I did have a diesel A1 canadian Rabbit that got 50+ mpg.
But comparing a fwd diesel to an awd gasoline car is most definitely apples and oranges.
If its to say apples meet epa and oranges don't,I see the point. Otherwise, who's here going on about buying a tdi?
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:14 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by jsteg View Post
Why is there people in the same category voting for multiple MPG choices?? Kinda defeats the purpose of trying to see "real world numbers" doesn't it??
Because I typically drive 2 highway speeds, 60 or 72, depending on the route I decide to take for the day/trip. So that by itself is 2 votes, then there is summer vs winter, so 2 more votes.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:29 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by jsteg View Post
Why is there people in the same category voting for multiple MPG choices?? Kinda defeats the purpose of trying to see "real world numbers" doesn't it??
LOL. Yes, but there's only one person doing that, so you can take his opinion with a grain of salt - that's why I removed his obviously tainted "reporting".
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