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View Poll Results: Manual vs CVT Impreza MPG
MT Pure Highway 20-22 1 1.92%
MT Pure Highway 23-25 1 1.92%
MT Pure Highway 26-28 2 3.85%
MT Pure Highway 29-31 3 5.77%
MT Pure Highway 32-34 1 1.92%
MT Pure Highway 35-37 5 9.62%
MT Pure Highway 38-40+ 2 3.85%
CVT Pure Highway 20-22 0 0%
CVT Pure Highway 23-25 0 0%
CVT Pure Highway 26-28 1 1.92%
CVT Pure Highway 29-31 3 5.77%
CVT Pure Highway 32-34 6 11.54%
CVT Pure Highway 35-37 5 9.62%
CVT Pure Highway 38-40+ 3 5.77%
MT Mixed 20-22 0 0%
MT Mixed 23-25 2 3.85%
MT Mixed 26-28 5 9.62%
MT Mixed 29-31 9 17.31%
MT Mixed 32-34 4 7.69%
MT Mixed 35-37 1 1.92%
MT Mixed 38-40+ 0 0%
CVT Mixed 20-22 0 0%
CVT Mixed 23-25 5 9.62%
CVT Mixed 26-28 10 19.23%
CVT Mixed 29-31 10 19.23%
CVT Mixed 32-34 2 3.85%
CVT Mixed 35-37 1 1.92%
CVT Mixed 38-40+ 0 0%
MT Pure City 17-19 0 0%
MT Pure City 20-22 0 0%
MT Pure City 23-25 4 7.69%
MT Pure City 26-28 3 5.77%
MT Pure City 29-31 1 1.92%
MT Pure City 32-34 0 0%
MT Pure City 35-37+ 0 0%
CVT Pure City 17-19 0 0%
CVT Pure City 20-22 1 1.92%
CVT Pure City 23-25 8 15.38%
CVT Pure City 26-28 2 3.85%
CVT Pure City 29-31 1 1.92%
CVT Pure City 32-34 0 0%
CVT Pure City 35-37+ 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanicone View Post
I got rid of my MT legacy to get the 2012 cvt to get better MGP for a long commute to work. I am getting 26.2 MPG. The trip computer claims 29.7 MPG. It is impossible to get the EPA rated MPG with the CVT. I have driven this car attempting to get the best MPG I can, and there is nothing fun about that, and have been nothing but disappointed with the real world MPG. It is not what it is advertised and I think that is what all of us CVT owners are trying to say.

Speak for yourself please!!!!

I love the use of the word 'impossible' in this thread, when clearly, people are doing it!
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:36 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Well, except for a few who don't understand that mpg's in the high 30's when driving 55 mph is not what the EPA meant. Oh, yes, and a few with the 5MT who are either incredibly confused or just tools of SOA.
You do realize that according the the poll, the CVT and MT are equal in every area right??
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:04 PM   #103
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A poll of 30-50 people (representing 80,000 cars) is not going to tell you anything valid that can be applied to the other 79,950 cars on the road.

The only worse polling in recent history was done by Mitt Romney's campaign staff.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:28 PM   #104
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A poll of 30-50 people (representing 80,000 cars) is not going to tell you anything valid that can be applied to the other 79,950 cars on the road.

The only worse polling in recent history was done by Mitt Romney's campaign staff.
Funny though how the results of this pole are VERY similar to Fuelly.....hmmmmmmm
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:42 PM   #105
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Please explain what the epa meant and what their recommended speed for best economy is.
The EPA meant for their ratings to be comparative. The fact that there are 12 vehicles with very little random error (+/- 2 mpg) between the EPA highway test and getting 35 mpg on the Consumer Reports highway mpg test means they correlate very well, only there is a bias offset. Then along comes the Impreza CVT, and instead of falling in with the entire rest of the pack at 30 +/- 2 mpg, Subaru magically rates the Impreza CVT at 36 mpg highway.

It's all in the first post here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2477627

Of course there are some here who don't understand what it means to statistically be one in half a million, and likely never will. They are the type of people who have manual transmissions and think they know about CVT performance. Pretty sad, really, that they don't know that they don't know.

It's like Mark Twain said, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so"
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:20 AM   #106
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Exactly what I expected, lots of text about stats and other cars, not actual epa testing or recommendations.

The fishing is just way too easy to be fun anymore.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:07 AM   #107
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He's trying to compensate for buyers remorse. He's unwilling to accept that the car performs fine in the EPA test but varies wider than comparables outside that range. He's not going to get a different car. He's not going to change his driving style. He's not going to petition the EPA because he knows he has nothing to stand on. You can't argue with emotion.

On a positive note, you could start and win a lawsuit and get $88.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2480331&page=5
Or maybe a random EPA audit will catch Subaru. I suppose there's always hope.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:23 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
Exactly what I expected, lots of text about stats and other cars, not actual epa testing or recommendations.

The fishing is just way too easy to be fun anymore.
Well, the purpose of the EPA testing is "for comparison". That's what you wanted, so that's what I gave you. As far as "best" speed for economy, that would be zero. Only a control freak would suggest otherwise, because each individual is different based on their vehicle vs. their valuation of their own time. The following chart addresses your question, but I'm sure you won't understand it again. For others who may have missed it, here it is. Based on my actual 2013 Impreza CVT curve (where I get 53 mpg at 40 mph on flat ground in a two way run) here is what you (well not you flyboy because you don't have a CVT) would save in dollars per hour at $3.50 per gallon by slowing down. (Every car is different due mostly to aerodynamics, but these numbers are close to what a typical car rated at 30 mpg highway - per Consumer Reports adjustment - will get)

MPH ______ MPG ______ $/hour saved
55 ______ 37 ______ $5.09
60 ______ 34 ______ $6.80
65 ______ 31 ______ $9.01
70 ______ 29 ______ $11.89
75 ______ 26 ______ $15.65
80 ______ 24

Example: slowing from 65 mph to 60 mph will save you $6.80 per hour.

So, you can see, based on how much a person's time is worth - e.g. would that individual person rather be at work making money or at home with his family, whatever - instead of commuting, the optimum speed varies. It's like what Jack Palance meant in City Slickers - the answer is really up to you.

Caveat: these numbers are based on an Impreza CVT in a commute through semi-hilly country. You can adjust your dollars per hour by the ratio of what is shown here vs. what you actually get. For instance if you really get 36 mpg at 60 mph because you drive on flat land, then reduce the dollar values by 34/36 so slowing from 60 mph to 55 mph really saves you $4.81 per hour.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:50 AM   #109
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I can for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to drive at 55mph. my time is important to me, ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning. I live my life a quarter mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team and all their bull****. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:13 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
I can for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to drive at 55mph. my time is important to me, ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning. I live my life a quarter mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team and all their bull****. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free.
Post of the week!

/thread
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:27 PM   #111
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Funny though how the results of this pole are VERY similar to Fuelly.....hmmmmmmm
Which has nothing to do with whether the poll results are statistically significant or not (they are not).

You could trust me on this, or take a class in statistics, but it is easier just to know that this poll could agree with you, or me, but it does not accurately predict anything because the sample size is too small.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:08 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by dmanicone View Post
I got rid of my MT legacy to get the 2012 cvt to get better MGP for a long commute to work. I am getting 26.2 MPG. The trip computer claims 29.7 MPG. It is impossible to get the EPA rated MPG with the CVT. I have driven this car attempting to get the best MPG I can, and there is nothing fun about that, and have been nothing but disappointed with the real world MPG. It is not what it is advertised and I think that is what all of us CVT owners are trying to say.
I feel your pain. Same boat here. The key is that they advertised this car as Such Impressive Improved MPG... Real world does not equate. Sux!!! So frustrating driving slower than I have ever and not achieving anything. I will never buy another Subaru, ever, on principal alone!!!
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:15 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post
I feel your pain. Same boat here. The key is that they advertised this car as Such Impressive Improved MPG... Real world does not equate. Sux!!! So frustrating driving slower than I have ever and not achieving anything. I will never buy another Subaru, ever, on principal alone!!!
based on fuelly, the overall average is quite a bit higher than the previous 10 years
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:49 PM   #114
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based on fuelly, the overall average is quite a bit higher than the previous 10 years
What is your point? When your at the bottom, only way is up, they just over shot that's my point. And enough of this fuelly crap. The only fuelly I care about is mine. That is the only variable I can control. Not trying to be a wenis.. but seriously... And speaking of statistics.. IMO this forum is a serious CVT bell curve.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:39 PM   #115
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What is your point? When your at the bottom, only way is up, they just over shot that's my point. And enough of this fuelly crap. The only fuelly I care about is mine. That is the only variable I can control. Not trying to be a wenis.. but seriously... And speaking of statistics.. IMO this forum is a serious CVT bell curve.
The point is there are improvements. Forums are for enthusiasts and non enthusiasts who just like to bitch, just a sad Fact of the matter. In the history of forums people generally complain/look to find help, very rarely do you just find someone posting praise. For the select few (who knows how many, they aren't posting here) are unhappy, there are many more who are happy.

What is the big bold number on the 2013 epa sticker, I bet it is 30, the combined number, and in general (the average) most cvts seem to be close. And most manuals are around the combined 28.

I see 31-33 now on my commute when in the highway portion, but yet my average over my last 10 fills is floating around 27 iirc. My commute is 1 mile in town, 37 miles of highway, and another 5 I consider in town, for a total of 43 1way. It is really amazing how much the cold start and little city I do really drags my avg down.

Last edited by flyboy1100; 03-29-2013 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:05 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Which has nothing to do with whether the poll results are statistically significant or not (they are not).

You could trust me on this, or take a class in statistics, but it is easier just to know that this poll could agree with you, or me, but it does not accurately predict anything because the sample size is too small.
LOL. Zeeper talking about statistics? That's rich.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:09 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
The point is there are improvements. Forums are for enthusiasts and non enthusiasts who just like to bitch, just a sad Fact of the matter.
So, you are either an enthusiast or "just like to bitch". Sounds like a tool talking to me.

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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
What is the big bold number on the 2013 epa sticker, I bet it is 30, the combined number, and in general (the average) most cvts seem to be close. And most manuals are around the combined 28.
You have not been paying attention. The MT may be getting close to advertised, but since it's getting better than the CVT which is advertised at 3 mpg better, you flunked at Logic 101
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:48 AM   #118
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First off if you drive manual you will always get better MPG and Automatic is lazy.

Now people will over estimate CVT transmission.

It is the absolute garbage bastard child of all cheap built-made/ expensive to fix transmissions

And to be honest i see less then the advertised MPG on auto cars then i see on manual

Now when using a Standard transmission

More Speeds the better the MPG obviously

You have more control over your car as well

From my old car the advertised mpg was 19/25 Average mpg of 21

But i saw 26/34 just cause i knew how to control the trans

Manual will always be better
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:45 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
LOL. Zeeper talking about statistics? That's rich.
You are/were the one making conclusions based upon a poll of ~30 drivers meant to represent ~79,970 other drivers.

Maybe a class in statistics would help you realize how foolish that is, but I doubt you could keep up with the rest of the class, so don't waste your time.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:02 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by EuroSubi View Post
First off if you drive manual you will always get better MPG and Automatic is lazy.

Snip

Manual will always be better
This is not true

Last edited by flyboy1100; 03-31-2013 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:21 AM   #121
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You are/were the one making conclusions based upon a poll of ~30 drivers meant to represent ~79,970 other drivers.
Hardly. I was commenting that the poll results are aligned with all the other mpg information that we have (except the figures put out by Subaru themselves), which is not only that does the MT gets better mpg than the CVT on fuelly, but that professional drivers at Consumer Reports got the same highway mpg for the CVT as they got for 12 other vehicles, and those 12 other vehicles had EPA highway ratings of 30 plus or minus 2 mpg.

That puts the CVT well into the realm of outlier. I guess you don't understand that term, outlier. You must not have made it that far in your statistics class yet. I get the idea it's a really slow class, based on how seldom you're correct here.

So, ask your teacher if the last number in this set is an outlier:

28
28
29
29
29
30
30
31
31
31
32
36

I get the idea, Zeeper, that whatever you do, it involves convincing not very intelligent people of things that are not true.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:35 AM   #122
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I get the idea, Zeeper, that whatever you do, it involves convincing not very intelligent people of things that are not true.
You do the same thing with different methods. Mostly by not sticking to one topic, mixing data, and changing the discussion when it suits.

Cast the first stone!
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #123
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You do the same thing with different methods. Mostly by not sticking to one topic, mixing data, and changing the discussion when it suits.
I don't think referring to a different topic to make a point, especially when the other "point maker" is counting on viewers not having seen their past posts, is a bad thing. It integrates the discussions which is objectionable only when trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes. The truth is the truth - it does not depend on the title of a thread.

Also, I don't "mix" data. I "correlate" data.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:32 AM   #124
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I don't need to try and twist Consumer Reports data into something other than what they provide -- here is what you need to know, directly from Consumer Reports, about the Impreza:

"Subaru's small car is well-rounded, with a roomy interior and compliant ride. Fuel economy is impressive given the standard all-wheel-drive. It's available both as a sedan or hatchback. It's Consumer Reports 2012 Top Pick small car"


Of course the only thing this quote and video does not mention is that, after driving a CVT Impreza for the last year, they again named it their Top Pick for 2013.

Now absolutely nothing in this post has my opinion, my bias, or my attempt to convince you that this car either sucks or is great. It is just reality, which some of us now realize has a well known Subaru bias.

Now sir mix-a-lot can try to convince you that the car sucks again, or that I work for Subaru, or that I work for Consumer Reports, or....

Last edited by Zeeper; 04-02-2013 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:08 AM   #125
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I don't need to try and twist Consumer Reports data into something other than what they provide -- here is what you need to know, directly from Consumer Reports, about the Impreza:
"Here is what you need to know".

No, not what I need to know. I don't know what everybody else needs to know and neither do you, despite your aforementioned sense that you control the minds around here and if someone doesn't agree with you, you will chastise them until either they leave or get on your "Impreza is perfect" bandwagon.

The objective statement here is that yes, the Impreza, in 50 different tests, comes out on top with Consumer Reports' grading system. And it's a great car. Unfortunately for me because I planned on driving it a lot, I put more emphasis on the fuel economy, to the tune of over probably $5,000 more than I had planned when I bought the car since I planned on driving it 200,000 miles. It gets the equivalent of 30 mpg highway vs. the claimed 36 (using the Consumer Reports' comparison) and gasoline will probably average $5 per gallon (at least) over that time.

So no, "all we need to know" is not that the Iimpreza gets good gas mileage "for an AWD car", we (several of us) needed to know that it does not get the mpg that Subaru advertised before we made the decision to buy it.

So, some of us wanted to know that it got the great mpg Subaru advertised.

You and your sycophants, as well as others who do not plan to drive it that much, just wanted to know that it gets good gas mileage "for an AWD car". That's not what we're talking about, despite your attempt to twist the discussion in that direction.
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