Subaru Guys Pan Toyota's Geneva FT-86 Convertible Concept

[Cocoa Beach Bum]

This is a blog entry from http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...le-falls-short by the Automotive News staffer who writes all its stories about Subaru (at least the ones that don't originate from Japan).

DIANA T. KURYLKO
Toyota FT-86 convertible falls short
March 5, 2013 - 5:16 pm ET

GENEVA -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s FT-86 convertible concept had some skeptics pondering if this was the way to go.

They included engineers from Subaru which developed Toyota's production GT86 coupe, as well as Subaru's version -- the BRZ -- and the Scion FR-S.

Only the latter two models are sold in the United States.

All three models developed by the two Japanese partners have rear-wheel drive and are powered by a Subaru Boxer engine.

There have been rumors about an open-top variant since the three cars went on sale last year. Subaru's answer has always been maybe, perhaps and we're considering it.

At the Geneva auto show, Subaru executives got their first look at the FT-86 open concept. The car has a cloth roof, and Toyota says the concept retains "2+2 seating format with minimal impact on luggage capacity."

It left Subaru engineers scratching their heads. They believe the convertible concept eats away precious rear seat room because of the space needed to hide the roof mechanism.

They wondered: Why not just make a two seat roadster?

How would Subaru do it? They'd create a convertible on a stretched wheelbase by adding about 4 inches so rear seat room wouldn't be compromised.

That's "if we were to do it," Subaru executives said at the Geneva show.

Yes, they have their own convertible under study, but it's not ready for display.

If you lift the cloth on the FT-86 convertible you don't see much in the way of working mechanicals.

Toyota says it built the car to gauge consumer reaction ,and initial press reports laud the car.

In this case, it's like the Wizard of Oz: You have to look behind the curtain to get the real story. And this concept only has room for children in the rear.

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[KC]

Didn't realize that Diana was a guy, nor, is this really a 'pan'.

--kC

[fredzy]

I'm surprised that Subaru would think the way to go is to stretch it out and get a real 2+2.

They wondered: Why not just make a two seat roadster?

Yeah, why not?

[Cocoa Beach Bum]

Originally Posted by KC

Didn't realize that Diana was a guy, nor, is this really a 'pan'.

The only part of that article which might be construed as the author's opinion was the last sentence. The author was merely reporting the sentiments of Subaru engineers and execs who saw the FT-86 concept, and I'm very confident they were exclusively male.

Diana, of course, is not a guy. She actually reminds me of Betty White:

[Calamity Jesus]

I'm perfectly fine with Subaru not building a convertible BRZ at all. A convertible FRS is enough for everyone.

[mneste8718]

Targa top pretty please... I would be all over it

[laufu]

Originally Posted by fredzy

I'm surprised that Subaru would think the way to go is to stretch it out and get a real 2+2.



Yeah, why not?

Hmm, stretching the wheelbase...to increase rear legroom? Maybe the Subaru engineers are hinting at something else? A 4 door? A shooting brake?

[Wrgb]

Originally Posted by mneste8718

Targa top pretty please... I would be all over it

Yes please!

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by laufu

Hmm, stretching the wheelbase...to increase rear legroom? Maybe the Subaru engineers are hinting at something else? A 4 door? A shooting brake?

To add space behind the rear seat for the lowered top. But those other ideas are interesting. Could make for better pay off for the chassis adjustments.

[samagon]

It's interesting commentary that kind of lends to my thoughts, which were, why the hell haven't we seen the car with the top up?

[cdlong]

Because it probably doesn't have a functioning top. Why spend the money to put together an ill fitting top (or a lot more money and time on onethat fits well) that no one cares about when what you want to know is if people want a convertible or not?

[keepclam]

It left Subaru engineers scratching their heads. They believe the convertible concept eats away precious rear seat room because of the space needed to hide the roof mechanism.

They wondered: Why not just make a two seat roadster?

How would Subaru do it? They'd create a convertible on a stretched wheelbase by adding about 4 inches so rear seat room wouldn't be compromised.

Huh? They would make a two-seat roadster by adding 4 inches so rear seat room wouldn't be compromised?

Subaru's own question applies to itself... why not just make a two seat roadster?

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by keepclam

Huh? They would make a two-seat roadster by adding 4 inches so rear seat room wouldn't be compromised?

Subaru's own question applies to itself... why not just make a two seat roadster?

Basic science.


I be trollin'!

[Cocoa Beach Bum]

Originally Posted by keepclam

Huh? They would make a two-seat roadster by adding 4 inches so rear seat room wouldn't be compromised?

Subaru's own question applies to itself... why not just make a two seat roadster?

I think Subaru's guys take their concept cars seriously and were criticizing Toyota's lack of effort and creativity. On the one hand, Toyota simply chopped of the top off the existing car and pretended the result was still suitable for a 2+2 configuration with the ragtop stowed. The Subaru guys felt the rear seat was a joke in that situation and wondered why Toyota didn't expend any effort at utilizing the space behind the front seats more creatively and effectively by ditching the rear seats. On the other hand, the Subaru guys felt that if you did want to preserve the 2+2 configuration for a convertible, then you really need to lengthen the car by about four inches. I don't think these two sentiments are incompatible.

[Cofusion]

Based on Jalopnik's review I don't think Toyota thought this out much for 2+2 see image below

[OrbitalEllipses]

Makes no sense for a 2+2. People who want a convertible top don't want rear seats...be honest.

Stretch wheelbase. Move engine back. Move firewall back. Move front seats back. Win.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Makes no sense for a 2+2. People who want a convertible top don't want rear seats...be honest.

Stretch wheelbase. Move engine back. Move firewall back. Move front seats back. Win.

[a2cpc]

The BRZ/FRS/GT86 doesn't make sense with a rear seat(2+2) anyway, so why not eliminate the rear seat, make it folding hardtop, and give it a little more trunk room. Would it look goofy with the top up...probably.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by a2cpc

The BRZ/FRS/GT86 doesn't make sense with a rear seat(2+2) anyway, so why not eliminate the rear seat, make it folding hardtop, and give it a little more trunk room. Would it look goofy with the top up...probably.

[keepclam]

Originally Posted by Cocoa Beach Bum

I think Subaru's guys take their concept cars seriously and were criticizing Toyota's lack of effort and creativity. On the one hand, Toyota simply chopped of the top off the existing car and pretended the result was still suitable for a 2+2 configuration with the ragtop stowed. The Subaru guys felt the rear seat was a joke in that situation and wondered why Toyota didn't expend any effort at utilizing the space behind the front seats more creatively and effectively by ditching the rear seats. On the other hand, the Subaru guys felt that if you did want to preserve the 2+2 configuration for a convertible, then you really need to lengthen the car by about four inches. I don't think these two sentiments are incompatible.

OK, I can see that. I took the "Why not just make it a two seat roadster" line to be about the convertible in general, rather than the Toyota-specific version of it. I guess I thought that, if Subaru truly thought retaining 2+2 was the best way to go, they would've instead asked Toyota "Why not just lengthen the wheelbase to compensate for lost rear seat room?".

[Juege]

The rear seats are absoutely useless in a car like that! Let them be.

[rallydriverosix]

Originally Posted by samagon

It's interesting commentary that kind of lends to my thoughts, which were, why the hell haven't we seen the car with the top up?

There have been some posted pics of the car with the top up; Autoblog posted the ones I saw.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/toyot...#photo-5691985

[keepclam]

^Thanks for the link. Top up looks OK to me... not too goofy.

(Some of those pics with the top down really remind me of the S2000!)

[A W]

Originally Posted by Juege

The rear seats are absoutely useless in a car like that! Let them be.

Reminds me of the Audi allroad and most of their cars with rear seats.

[WRX4US]

As if there was any real room for rear seat passengers in the BRZ to begin with?