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Old 03-17-2013, 04:53 PM   #1
manys
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Default Quick Spool Valve opinions?

So I was reading about my new coming project(2JZ and stuff) and came upon this thing.

Quick Spool Valve. It's basically a twincscroll-like divider between the manifold and the turbo controlled by the wastegate mechanism.





http://www.suprastore.com/spquspva.html

^There's more info about it with dyno graphs of before and after. They are getting some amazing results like ~400HP at 3700rpm with GT42 vs 270HP before and 550TQ at 2700rpm vs at 4700rpm with not much loss in top end.


It's hard to image to be honest. It's not a new idea either. So has anyone heard about that,have some personal experience?

Why no one is using one on Subarus? It's not cheap considering you need custom manifold and the valve is expensive by itself but the low end gains are crazy
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:43 PM   #2
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or you can just get an external wastegate and equal length headers.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #3
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^^^What??? These work by creating more exhaust back pressure and create a bottle neck at the exhaust housing inlet. I don't know what an el header and ewg are going to accomplish as far as that. They do seem to work very well for the Supra guys. I remember seeing a thread on this board a while ago about them, or something similar. It doesn't seem to be something that anyone is interested in trying for the Subaru community. Try one and report back lol. Btw, is a divided turbine housing necessary for using one?
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchafee View Post
^^^What??? These work by creating more exhaust back pressure and create a bottle neck at the exhaust housing inlet. I don't know what an el header and ewg are going to accomplish as far as that. They do seem to work very well for the Supra guys. I remember seeing a thread on this board a while ago about them, or something similar. It doesn't seem to be something that anyone is interested in trying for the Subaru community. Try one and report back lol. Btw, is a divided turbine housing necessary for using one?
yes they were designed to use a single scroll header on a supra with a divided housing turbo. with bigger turbos they work excellent as mentioned with the numbers above, but for most smaller turbos used in the subaru community it is not really justified. One of my friends supra gets worked on exclusively by sp and runs experimental setups and turbos from pt and the quick spool is a proven part. Also, im glad u commented on the post from above about the ewg and equal length headers so i didnt have to. wtf..... lol
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:30 PM   #5
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The SP one may not be as totally optimized as it could be; it creates a restriction in one part of the twin scroll housing and means you don't get to have a real twin scroll setup. I've heard rumors BW has prototypes of similar things out in the wild in various places but a bit more optimized. Regardless, the theory's sound - hell, there's OEM setups out there that do the same thing.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercookie View Post
or you can just get an external wastegate and equal length headers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachary.berrier View Post
yes they were designed to use a single scroll header on a supra with a divided housing turbo. with bigger turbos they work excellent as mentioned with the numbers above, but for most smaller turbos used in the subaru community it is not really justified. One of my friends supra gets worked on exclusively by sp and runs experimental setups and turbos from pt and the quick spool is a proven part. Also, im glad u commented on the post from above about the ewg and equal length headers so i didnt have to. wtf..... lol

Ok were're talking about 3.0L motors but still 82mm turbo with a spool/low-end power band of like 18g or even smaller? As for small turbos on Subys, there's plenty of Subaru guys running GT35's and up on the street.That could be a nice upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
The SP one may not be as totally optimized as it could be; it creates a restriction in one part of the twin scroll housing and means you don't get to have a real twin scroll setup. I've heard rumors BW has prototypes of similar things out in the wild in various places but a bit more optimized. Regardless, the theory's sound - hell, there's OEM setups out there that do the same thing.
I think you mean those variable veins turbos on diesels(and on one Porsche I think). I've read that they don't perform quite to the task on petrol. Porshe ditched them rather quickly.

I wonder how it this QSV's reliability with the temps it sees constantly.But then again it's a simple setup. It most likely can be done DIY for 1/3 the cost. Than it becomes an even better option.

Anyone has some info on that thing working with smaller turbos(30R or something)?
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:05 PM   #7
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There was a thread on this a while back. Had a lot of info in it...
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:16 PM   #8
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I know these very well. They do work. Quite well.


I'm debating between using one of these or twin scroll. Ill get a killer price on them so I will prolly go with one. At least to test.

Last edited by WhatTurboLag?; 03-17-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spintheground View Post
There was a thread on this a while back. Had a lot of info in it...
Found it, actually no info at all just speculation and typical Nasioc crap..No this won't work, can't be, impossible! LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
I know these very well. They do work. Quite well.


I'm debating between using one of these or twin scroll. Ill get a killer price on them so I will prolly go with one. At least to test.

Know anyone else besides SP who makes them? LS1 did or does but they were not good?Any one else? Price of SP seems kind off high even though they are probably made with good materials to withstand the temps. This could be simple DIY project

What turbo you'll be running and how would you control it?
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:01 AM   #10
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I haven't heard much from other platforms using this. I did search long ago and found what seemed like some semi reputable reports of the importance of controlling the duty to allow gradual transition as you would have a shifting ve curve. Kudos if you actually try it. I think that you need to be extra critical reports and look more or less at what it takes to make it work well than to look at just how it works. You're introducing a restriction that has the potential to add a lot of turbulence. Tuning it correctly would be my main concern especially if you have avcs which is already increasing dynamic compression. I'm sure it can be done but I doubt that oversimplifying the concept is the right way to go.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:20 AM   #11
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These work. You will be able to run a bigger exhaust A/R, something close to 1 or even higher, as the QSV will 1/2 it until the valve rotates open under the boost your actuator is set at.

Also you can make this at home. Get a divided t4 flange from Ebay and also a throttle body for the shaft. Get some high quality stainless steel and a tig welder. Bring it to a machine shop to drill the hole for the shaft and cut the steel. Find an actuator with a low PSI setting, like a z31 (7 psi) or something even lower that has a 4-5 psi actuator from the junkyard.

You can make it by yourself with the necessary tools for around $50 or probably around $150 with a machine shop. The people who make SP's are good quality I will say, but still way overpriced.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:16 AM   #12
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The idea of the sensitivity these engines have to backpressure is enough to never use one myself. Keep in mind the alloy consideration.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:36 AM   #13
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The idea of the sensitivity these engines have to backpressure is enough to never use one myself. Keep in mind the alloy consideration.
Elaborate, why do you think EJ's are sensitive to backpressure?
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300zxturboftw View Post
These work. You will be able to run a bigger exhaust A/R, something close to 1 or even higher, as the QSV will 1/2 it until the valve rotates open under the boost your actuator is set at.

Also you can make this at home. Get a divided t4 flange from Ebay and also a throttle body for the shaft. Get some high quality stainless steel and a tig welder. Bring it to a machine shop to drill the hole for the shaft and cut the steel. Find an actuator with a low PSI setting, like a z31 (7 psi) or something even lower that has a 4-5 psi actuator from the junkyard.

You can make it by yourself with the necessary tools for around $50 or probably around $150 with a machine shop. The people who make SP's are good quality I will say, but still way overpriced.
How did you address the issue of sealing the holes you drilled for the shaft to penetrate through? And what materials are you using to withstand 1800 F EGT temps? This is all tested right?
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manys View Post
Found it, actually no info at all just speculation and typical Nasioc crap..No this won't work, can't be, impossible! LOL


Yep that sounds like the right thread
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spintheground View Post
There was a thread on this a while back. Had a lot of info in it...
Yup.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1857853

Lol at many's comment, it comes with the territory; everything with a grain of salt. This industry is slow/unwilling to change, new'ish tech/theory takes a while for everyone to catch on.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:40 PM   #17
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SS for the flange. 304 SS for flapper and screws. Any wastegate actuator. SS for the WG bracket.

I doubt that SC one uses any kind of seal on the shaft. Just precise machining.Leakage would be minimal and wouldn't matter.

Definitely could be done for ~$150 yourself using very good materials, ~$200 with some machining.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manys View Post
I think you mean those variable veins turbos on diesels(and on one Porsche I think). I've read that they don't perform quite to the task on petrol. Porshe ditched them rather quickly.

I wonder how it this QSV's reliability with the temps it sees constantly.But then again it's a simple setup. It most likely can be done DIY for 1/3 the cost. Than it becomes an even better option.

Anyone has some info on that thing working with smaller turbos(30R or something)?
2nd gen Mazda RX-7 did it for a few years. The way it closed off one of the turbo scrolls worked differently, but same idea. There may be others, that's just the one I know of.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #19
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Its like a sequintial setup but for one turbo. Works great for cars with 3.0 or larger displacement trying to spool a giant ass turbo faster. Subaru guys for the most part have no idea what turbo lag is, supra guys have dealt with it since jesus was born.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:51 PM   #20
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I think you're exaggerating. Any turbo will be more laggy on 2.5 or 2.0L than on 3.0L

35R+ on a 2.5 or more-so 2.0L is laggy as hell.. it's not like 99% of people run vf39's

It was tested with 6262-sized ones and gave great results too
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
2nd gen Mazda RX-7 did it for a few years. The way it closed off one of the turbo scrolls worked differently, but same idea. There may be others, that's just the one I know of.

thanks, didn't know that
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:18 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by scby rex View Post
Subaru guys for the most part have no idea what turbo lag is, supra guys have dealt with it since jesus was born.
Dont confuse a good awd launch to a rwd launch. It has nothing to do with turbo lag.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:21 AM   #23
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The real question is, who's going to test one of these bad boys out!?!
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manys View Post
SS for the flange. 304 SS for flapper and screws. Any wastegate actuator. SS for the WG bracket.

I doubt that SC one uses any kind of seal on the shaft. Just precise machining.Leakage would be minimal and wouldn't matter.

Definitely could be done for ~$150 yourself using very good materials, ~$200 with some machining.
Precisely, great post. You are going to want to spec the shaft so it doesn't seize, but at the same time isn't a gaping leak.

And to those guys saying wrx's don't have turbo lag? What? Some people upgrade from the stock turbo's here/VF39's as stated. I run a rotated 35r on a ej257, and trust me, there is enough lag where one of these would be awesome. I also run a T72 on a VG30, so from actual personal experience I can tell you they work.

And back pressure? You really think one flapper on a dual scroll is going to cause reversion in gasses being force into a collector from both cylinder banks? I'm new to nasioc so maybe I'm not use to answers/concerns like these from other forums I'm on.

Stop throwing people off if you have no idea what you are talking about. This is why it takes people so long to evolve new racing technology because you have people running stock turbo's at close to stock power levels giving advice on something they have no idea what they are talking about, but heard from their cousins mothers second brother that his corvette was running one on a naturally aspirated engine and it didn't work like dem turbo motors.

Last edited by 300zxturboftw; 03-19-2013 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:12 PM   #25
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You better get used to that mentality here
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