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Old 03-05-2013, 04:04 PM   #1
eovnu87435ds
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Default 02 2.5ts M/T - Interfacing with Neutral Switch

So I am 95% done installing a Viper 5704 remote start + security in my manual subaru wagon. Rather than go with the specific instructions they gave me, I am working on something a bit different.

I am keeping the car in "auto mode" so that I don't have to do that silly parking maneuver, however, I have several of the safety wires hooked up to different things.

I have the 2nd status wire connected to the sense side of the clutch safety switch so that I still need the clutch to start manually, but it will bypass only during the remote start sequence.
I have one of the safetys connected to the e-brake. No e-brake, no start.
I have another safety which is intended for a neutral safety switch. pulling that wire to ground gives the go-ahead to start the car.

The manual transmission has a neutral switch on the rear of the transmission. It can be seen as part 11 in this forester transfer case, but it is in a similar location on my Impreza.


It runs 2 wires up underneath the air filter, then into the firewall somewhere. When probing this wire, however, I am not finding any signals relative to ground.

Does anybody know how to interface with this switch? If I can get this switch installed I will have a M/T car that will never start in gear or without the e-brake, and without doing the ridiculous shutdown procedure.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #2
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Yes. Passenger side kick panel under carpet. I have some paperwork somewhere, but the NSS wire is there going into the ECU. Ill look around and tell you where it is/which harness/color wire. Ive done it on my 04 wrx and my girlfriends 02 2.5ts wagon. works perfect, tapped it and ran a diode isolated wire to the hood pin wire.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #3
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Harness B135, terminal 26. IIRC its a green/black wire.

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Old 03-05-2013, 06:04 PM   #4
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Not sure how the 02 is, but on my 04 STi the neutral safety switch was backwards compared to most. It was ground when in gear (most are ground when in neutral). That means you will not be able to interface that into the neutral safety switch input of the remote start.. otherwise it will only allow it to start if the car is in gear. If yours does end up being ground when in gear you will have to just tie it into the hood pin safety shutdown of the remote start. Make sure to diode isolate the 2 inputs (hood pin & neutral safety switch) so they do not back-feed into each other.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:05 PM   #5
eovnu87435ds
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Sweet, this is exactly what I was looking for. I had the "magic sheet" for this car that I found somewhere on the web, but it didn't have any of the advanced stuff.

Thanks!
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:06 PM   #6
klarowe
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Also, don't expect the e-brake to protect against anything. If the car remote starts in gear the e-brake will not hold the car back. It will still drive away.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:11 PM   #7
eovnu87435ds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klarowe View Post
Also, don't expect the e-brake to protect against anything. If the car remote starts in gear the e-brake will not hold the car back. It will still drive away.
Yeah, I know it won't hold it back. I tested that to be sure. That's why remote start is disabled for me right now. I know a guy who did this on his jeep at school, accidentally started it, and it idled across the parking lot, across a field, across the street, and into the teacher's car. He was in that teacher's class when it happened too.

Hopefully I will have it all set up correctly this weekend!
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klarowe View Post
Not sure how the 02 is, but on my 04 STi the neutral safety switch was backwards compared to most. It was ground when in gear (most are ground when in neutral). That means you will not be able to interface that into the neutral safety switch input of the remote start.. otherwise it will only allow it to start if the car is in gear. If yours does end up being ground when in gear you will have to just tie it into the hood pin safety shutdown of the remote start. Make sure to diode isolate the 2 inputs (hood pin & neutral safety switch) so they do not back-feed into each other.
02-04 is ground when in gear
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:53 PM   #9
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Hook up the Viper HOOD PIN (-) to your neutral safety input on your vehicle located @ the ecu.
Thus when in gear, it won't start as the remote starter thinks the hood is open.

Work smarter. Not harder. Then you have no need for hooking up e-brake, door pin, etc.

Last edited by blessthekellen; 03-06-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:07 AM   #10
eovnu87435ds
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Originally Posted by blessthekellen View Post
Hook up the Viper HOOD PIN (-) to your neutral safety input on your vehicle located @ the ecu.
Thus when in gear, it won't start as the remote starter thinks the hood is open.

Work smarter. Not harder. Then you have no need for hooking up e-brake, door pin, etc.
Yeah, i knew I could get away with the nss, but I'd rather have multiple points of safety instead of just 1. ex, if my nss wire shorts to ground, I want to make sure that at least my e-brake is on if the car starts in gear.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:26 PM   #11
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Make sure to install the hood pin. It is another important safety feature. Then use diodes so that they don't back feed into each other.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:34 PM   #12
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I have the hood pin on the hood pin switch, and I took the neutral switch(a seperate pin that should just be grounded in automatic models) and went to use that for my NSS. (there are 3 "safety" pins in total that must be grounded on my model.)

I measured voltage on my NSS and found that I get ~5v in neutral and ~0.5v in gear, just as klarowe and kebinb had described. So for this to work I used a Solid State Relay(the kind that doesn't "click" when changing) so that when I got 5v in the NSS, It connected the NSS pin of the remote start to ground, essentially reversing the logic.

It works!
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:52 PM   #13
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There is no need for the relay and the relay provides a point of failure. Also, depending on how you wired the hot side of the relay coil, the relay will remain energized every-time the car is in neutral; which WILL drain your battery. The hood pin input is the exact configuration you need. It will de-activate the remote start if it sees a ground signal. Simply connect the NSS along with your hood pin (diode isolate them so they do not back-feed) and that's it. If the car is in gear it will provide a ground signal to the hood pin input making the system think the hood is open and will not allow it to start. Once you have that connected and verified, simply just attach the NSS input of the system to a good ground.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by klarowe View Post
There is no need for the relay and the relay provides a point of failure. Also, depending on how you wired the hot side of the relay coil, the relay will remain energized every-time the car is in neutral; which WILL drain your battery. The hood pin input is the exact configuration you need. It will de-activate the remote start if it sees a ground signal. Simply connect the NSS along with your hood pin (diode isolate them so they do not back-feed) and that's it. If the car is in gear it will provide a ground signal to the hood pin input making the system think the hood is open and will not allow it to start. Once you have that connected and verified, simply just attach the NSS input of the system to a good ground.
I have a question concerning this....
So basically the theory works out for the R/S NSS.. but don't you loose the security feature of the alarm hood pin with this?

If you leave the car in gear hood pin is - and activate the alarm... it will tell you the hood is open as it's grounded,and will bypass that zone and a thief can open your hood without the alarm trigger.

Last edited by hellyhans; 03-11-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:40 PM   #15
eovnu87435ds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellyhans View Post
I have a question concerning this....
So basically the theory works out for the R/S NSS.. but don't you loose the security feature of the alarm hood pin with this?

If you leave the car in gear hood pin is - and activate the alarm... it will tell you the hood is open as it's grounded,and will bypass that zone and a thief can open your hood without the alarm trigger.
Both the hood and the NSS will be seen as "hood open" to the alarm unit. So opening the hood will set off the alarm. Putting your car in gear would do the same too. I forget what will happen if you arm your car while it is in gear.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #16
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Both the hood and the NSS will be seen as "hood open" to the alarm unit. So opening the hood will set off the alarm. Putting your car in gear would do the same too. I forget what will happen if you arm your car while it is in gear.
Exactly, my guess is, if you arm your car while it's in gear.. It will think the hood if open...so the hood zone will be by-bassed i'm guessing.

I also noticed you can change the setting in "Security" for HOOD PIN INPUT.
It can be change from N/O to N/C
Default is N/O

I wonder if that would correct the issue.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:00 AM   #17
klarowe
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If the car was in gear then yes, the hood pin would become de-activated. But it would also act as a safety alert as you got out of the car to let you know it was in gear. Changing it from N/O to N/C would do nothing. That is only there because some cars have an opposite hood pin (ground when closed). That option is only to allow those hood pins to be used.

If I leave my car in gear, the hood pin is deactivated. Yes its a minor loss to security, but the safety factor is much more important. If you were that concerned, you could connect the NSS to the hood pin and then connect the hood pin (with diodes) to the door pin input. If you had an LCD remote, it would not specifically call out the hood being open, but the security aspect of it would still be there... only it would say door open if the hood was opened.

The safety is more important (in my opinion) than the security.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #18
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If the car was in gear then yes, the hood pin would become de-activated. But it would also act as a safety alert as you got out of the car to let you know it was in gear. Changing it from N/O to N/C would do nothing. That is only there because some cars have an opposite hood pin (ground when closed). That option is only to allow those hood pins to be used.

If I leave my car in gear, the hood pin is deactivated. Yes its a minor loss to security, but the safety factor is much more important. If you were that concerned, you could connect the NSS to the hood pin and then connect the hood pin (with diodes) to the door pin input. If you had an LCD remote, it would not specifically call out the hood being open, but the security aspect of it would still be there... only it would say door open if the hood was opened.

The safety is more important (in my opinion) than the security.
All this makes sense...

One thing I find a little inconveniente is that we only use remote start in the winter right? (most of us)

So in the summer, I often park my car IN GEAR ( ex: on a hill )

BTW: you are always supposed to park you car in gear on a hill with wheel facing the curb (safety).

So if I use it this way, every time I arm my car in the summer( when I don't need RS) I would get the hood open warning.

To bypass this, I would have to wire the hood pin switch to an instant trigger.. I just won't see it on my remote saying (hood)
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:16 PM   #19
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Exactly. Wire it into your door pin (using diodes so it doesn't back-feed into the BCM). Then it would just say door open. Which technically the hood is like a door... lol. Then the hood open symbol would become your 'car in gear' warning.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:47 AM   #20
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It's been a while since I have installed Viper products, but I believe if you connect the hood pin wire to an instant trigger input or door trigger input on the Viper the car will still remote start when the hood is open. I believe it is the same for the trunk input. Other brands probably work the same. I do know on Compustar products if you connect to the trunk input it will not remote start when that zone is triggered.

As others have said, I would suggest getting rid of the solid state relay and connecting the neutral wire and hood pin wire (diode isolated of course) to the hood pin input. You will get the extra warning beep when arming in gear, the car won't start in gear, but you lose the hood protection.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:25 AM   #21
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That is a great point. If you just move the hood pin to a door trigger you will lose that safety feature...which is a bad idea. The only safe and reliable way to achieve exactly what you want without sacrificing any safety features would be to split the hood pin into both inputs... but make sure to use diodes or it will defeat the purpose. That way if the car is left in gear and the hood input is bypassed it will still trigger the door input. But if the hood is open or the car is in gear it will trigger the hood status and not allow it to start. If you need I can make you up a quick diagram to help show it but basically you will take the hood pin wire from the unit, split it with 2 diodes (with the band facing away from the unit). One will go to the actual hood pin and one to the n.s.s in the vehicle. Then split the door pin wire with 2 diodes (stripe away from the unit). One to the actual door pin and one to the hood pin. I usually think better if I look at it on paper but I'm not home at the moment... but that should work exactly how you need. All safety features will be used without losing any security.
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