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Old 03-17-2013, 09:45 PM   #1
amorgan93
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Since this thread isn't totally about tuning, i put it in the turbo powertrain section, if this isn't right feel free to move. Anyways, so my 2004 Forester XT 4EAT started having issues a while back. The stock turbo blew (seals), i got a used turbo for free that had an unknown history. It smoked like crazy, but worked, i ran it for a while because it was a bit better than the stock turbo. I eventually put the stock turbo back on and ran it...even though it smoked like crazy. Couple days ago i got my car back from a Subi specialist that installed an 83k mile trans for me, replaced the turbo with one i bought used that only had around 60k miles on it, replaced timing belt and pulleys with Gates kit, and changed all oils/fluids and filters. The car is back to the way it was before the trans blew, except it doesn't smoke anymore, so I'm guessing this turbo is good. The car only barely puffs a tiny bit of smoke when cold starting now, totally goes away when warm. The problems:

1: Shortly after i went Cobb stage 1 the car started detonating or rattling or something at around 4500-5500 rpm, that continues till redline. It happens randomly, sometimes doesnt happen at all, mostly happens in 2nd or 3rd gear. When it happens the ECU subtracts a lot of timing in the Fine knock learn table, and drops the DAM to .8 or below. On the blown stock turbo it would drop the DAM to .1 and even 0.0. On the replacement I've only seen it drop to .8 and it goes back to 1.0 normally. I'm running the Cobb stage 2 91 octane map, using 93 octane gas, Invidia catless downpipe, STI catless uppipe, STI OEM catback, otherwise stock. Also, notice the MAF doesnt read above 181 g/s at WOT at above 5000 rpm....normal?

2: Air keeps getting in the coolant system somehow. Ive tried several methods of "burping" and the car will be perfectly fine until driven hard for a while. Then when i park, at idle the heater blows cold air, and the temp starts rising.. goes right before the red on the gauge, then goes back to normal, and will repeat.. once again there's air in the system. Then when i bleed it again, its fine, until running hard for a bit..same scenario. And the overflow tank rises to the top.

The car also burns some oil... but it does have 160k miles on it. About 1/2 quart in 300 miles, and a lot of hard driving.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0BM...it?usp=sharing 2nd gear
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0BM...it?usp=sharing 3rd gear
Any advice is appreciated....
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Last edited by amorgan93; 03-18-2013 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:49 PM   #2
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Have you checked compression...
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:50 PM   #3
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Btw can't see if the files are uploaded from my phone. Did you attach? Cuz they're not linked.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #4
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Btw can't see if the files are uploaded from my phone. Did you attach? Cuz they're not linked.
Sorry i posted before finishing the post! Internet it crazy here. uploading the files to google now..

have not checked compression, but there is no smoking out of oil cap, no coolant in oil, no oil in coolant. Also used a block tester/ "sniffer" and never got a reading of Hydrocarbons in the coolant system (although i couldn't place the "sniffer" all the way in the top of the fill tank because it would suck up antifreeze if it made a seal.) There are bubbles in filler tank when starting cold, but not when at operating temperature. I'm going to try a Subaru radiator cap replacement and Subaru coolant conditioner tomorrow...and see if i can get the coolant system to stay air-pocket free. I really hope its not head gaskets...the car has a lot of power...i would be suprised if it were HGs.

Last edited by amorgan93; 03-18-2013 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #5
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That's a lot of knock. I would recommend getting it in the hands of a professional tuner. I would also recommend not doing any more pulls. Also letting your temperature gauge reach the 'red' section is putting a lot of strain on your headgasket.

Not only is there a lot of knock, but there's a lot of learned knock correction indicating that the knock occurs consistently in that range.

Last edited by mechatricity; 03-18-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:13 PM   #6
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Shortly after i went Cobb stage 1 the car started detonating or rattling or something at around 4500-5500 rpm, that continues till redline. It happens randomly, sometimes doesnt happen at all, mostly happens in 2nd or 3rd gear. When it happens the ECU subtracts a lot of timing in the Fine knock learn table, and drops the DAM to .8 or below.
If you're literally hearing a mechanical knocking noise with your own ears while the car is subtracting timing....you might want to do some diagnosis before trying to drive the car hard anymore.

Hearing a knocking noise from the engine while getting pulled timing at the same time on your logs usually...unfortunately is a sign of something like Rod Knock.

However, if the shop didn't replace the timing belt tensioner or messed up on the install and had to re-compress the tensioner to adjust the belt and didn't do it properly you can get a very similar noise just from the blown tensioner damper.

The coolant issue just sounds like you have a small leak somewhere. As coolant heats up, the pressure in the coolant system increases. So you're probably spewing coolant only at high speeds which makes it difficult to locate the source of the leak. Look for white residue on plastic covers and hoses under the hood. I'd start at the radiator itself, if it's a stock rad, those plastic crimp-on tank caps are known to leak exactly how you are describing.

My guess with the rattle and pulled timing is a failed rod bearing. Blown turbos can spew chunks of brass metal flake into the oil pan post-filter causing things to go wrong. More often they blow metal debris into the intercooler which eventually makes its way into the engine and causes ring damage. The other issue would be the lowered octane from all the oil residue getting blown past the seals on the turbo into the engine can cause det and screw things up too.

I'd be wary of a bearing or ring issue at this point judging from the story and the logs. Get everything checked out before driving it anymore. Dump the oil, look for metal flakes and re-check the compression if the oil comes out clean.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #7
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Do you have a spare Maf sensor to swap out? When they go bad, they usually read lower airflow, thus resulting in less load, which means more timing, which could be why it is pulling so much timing. I would think stage 2 would pull a little more Maf volts than that.

What do your fuel trims look like after at least a week of not resetting the ECU?
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #8
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If you put in a request for a copy of AccessRace Tuner and install it, I can make some revisions to your Stage 2 map and email it to you. I'll make it safe so you can trace down whatever mechanical issues you have going on.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:48 PM   #9
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If you put in a request for a copy of AccessRace Tuner and install it, I can make some revisions to your Stage 2 map and email it to you. I'll make it safe so you can trace down whatever mechanical issues you have going on.
Yeah i have ATR downloaded and installed. That would be great!

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Originally Posted by SkateAndDestroy View Post
Do you have a spare Maf sensor to swap out? When they go bad, they usually read lower airflow, thus resulting in less load, which means more timing, which could be why it is pulling so much timing. I would think stage 2 would pull a little more Maf volts than that.

What do your fuel trims look like after at least a week of not resetting the ECU?
No clue what the fuel trims look like, i'm lost when it comes to tuning, i just have a very basic understanding of a few things here and there. Unfortunately i dont have a spare MAF, and i was reading on the forums, most people are getting 220-250g/s on the stock TD04 and stock airbox..that's why 183g/s seemed very low to me.


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If you're literally hearing a mechanical knocking noise with your own ears while the car is subtracting timing....you might want to do some diagnosis before trying to drive the car hard anymore.

Hearing a knocking noise from the engine while getting pulled timing at the same time on your logs usually...unfortunately is a sign of something like Rod Knock.
There's no knocking in neutral, and ive held it at 4k rpm, and bounced the rpms around, and repeated at 3k rpm, and 3500, listening for any traces of rod knock. The noise doesnt sound anything like rod knock, it sounds like a severe case of heat-shield rattle, but i know for a fact its not heatshield. I welded them up myself, and removed the one over the turbo (because of the invidia downpipe). The car has been doing this noise for a year. And about half the time there is no noise whatsoever, but half the time there is.

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However, if the shop didn't replace the timing belt tensioner or messed up on the install and had to re-compress the tensioner to adjust the belt and didn't do it properly you can get a very similar noise just from the blown tensioner damper.
The shop that did the work is EXCELLENT. They are a member on NASIOC, Subi specialists, very intelligent. They are the only people i dare let touch my car. And the car did the exact same noise, at the exact same RPM on the original timing belt & pullies.

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The coolant issue just sounds like you have a small leak somewhere. As coolant heats up, the pressure in the coolant system increases. So you're probably spewing coolant only at high speeds which makes it difficult to locate the source of the leak. Look for white residue on plastic covers and hoses under the hood. I'd start at the radiator itself, if it's a stock rad, those plastic crimp-on tank caps are known to leak exactly how you are describing.
Well, the temp gauge starts getting near the red, the heater blows cold air, the overflow spews coolant everywhere. Today i noticed when i remove the overflow cap after a drive around the block (getting into boost a few times), there are bubbles constantly.. and if i have a friend hold the car at 2k rpm with the reservoir cap off...there is constant bubbles..looks kinda like what you see in a beer or something. I have a bad feeling its headgaskets.. What do you think?

Last edited by amorgan93; 03-19-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #10
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Let me know how that revision worked out, post a log in 2nd gear from 2000-6000 or so.

I would recommend getting a compression AND a leakdown test asap to narrow down an internal issue with the motor. The leakdown test would potentially show the HG leak if one side of the engine had a higher leakdown vs the other 2 cylinders.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:52 PM   #11
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Classic symptoms of a blown head gasket. You will probably find that you fail a leak down test and maybe even a compression test.

How long did you drive the car for with those 2 bad turbos?

Last edited by Tripintaz; 03-19-2013 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:49 PM   #12
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Classic symptoms of a blown head gasket. You will probably find that you fail a leak down test and maybe even a compression test.

How long did you drive the car for with those 2 bad turbos?
On the first replacement turbo i drove it for several months, and back on the stock another few months. When i bought the car it had posted on the window "Timing belt and head gaskets replaced at 125k miles) The car had 130k on it, and drove and ran fine. Upon getting the timing belt replaced last week, the timing belt was original and was WAY PAST DUE, bearings were shot and belt was cracking. I have a feeling the car had head gasket problems and they just poured in some Bars HG stuff just to get by. For $1100 i can get a full overhaul, new rings, blocked line bored and cylinders honed with torque plates, heads machined flat, all new gaskets, ACL Race bearings, but using stock pistons.. Or, for $600, there is a 55k mile 06 Legacy GT shortblock for sale on the local craigslist.

I'm considering selling the car and buying a WRX of the same year, but i don't know if that would be an upgrade or not. The 4eat trans in the car has 83k miles, shifts much faster than the original, has Long-tru cool trans cooler, car has invidia downpipe, sti OEM cat-back, sti catless UP, Cobb AP, otherwise stock...just the motor is worn out. I don't know if the 5 speed in a WRX is an upgrade from the 4eat (considering their tendency to fail), and an EJ20 vs the EJ25 w/ AVCS. The WRX would handle better than the FXT (although i dont know how the FXT handles with the STI rear sway bar, and have heard it makes a big difference). And opinions or suggestions is appreciated!

Last edited by amorgan93; 03-20-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:49 AM   #13
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Yeah i have ATR downloaded and installed. That would be great!



No clue what the fuel trims look like, i'm lost when it comes to tuning, i just have a very basic understanding of a few things here and there. Unfortunately i dont have a spare MAF, and i was reading on the forums, most people are getting 220-250g/s on the stock TD04 and stock airbox..that's why 183g/s seemed very low to me.




There's no knocking in neutral, and ive held it at 4k rpm, and bounced the rpms around, and repeated at 3k rpm, and 3500, listening for any traces of rod knock. The noise doesnt sound anything like rod knock, it sounds like a severe case of heat-shield rattle, but i know for a fact its not heatshield. I welded them up myself, and removed the one over the turbo (because of the invidia downpipe). The car has been doing this noise for a year. And about half the time there is no noise whatsoever, but half the time there is.



The shop that did the work is EXCELLENT. They are a member on NASIOC, Subi specialists, very intelligent. They are the only people i dare let touch my car. And the car did the exact same noise, at the exact same RPM on the original timing belt & pullies.



Well, the temp gauge starts getting near the red, the heater blows cold air, the overflow spews coolant everywhere. Today i noticed when i remove the overflow cap after a drive around the block (getting into boost a few times), there are bubbles constantly.. and if i have a friend hold the car at 2k rpm with the reservoir cap off...there is constant bubbles..looks kinda like what you see in a beer or something. I have a bad feeling its headgaskets.. What do you think?
You can have rod knock that doesn't make any noise in neutral...I have that right now! However, after a year it would have thrown a rod by now so scratch that. My second guess would be a bad throw-out bearing on your clutch.

As for the coolant issue, you might have the radiator caps reversed. But it also could be head gaskets. Is there any oil residue in the coolant along with the bubbles? Are the bubbles smelling a lot like gasoline or exhaust? If not, it could be a bad cap that's not letting the system vent.

You also mentioned a bad turbo in the mix at one point or another. They are water-cooled. I'd be surprised if gas was getting in that way, usually they would leak rather than push crap through into the coolant but who knows at this point. The turbo is perhaps the only thing on the car besides the engine itself that is exposed to enough pressure (exhaust side pressure, not compressor end) to push crap into the coolant system rather than just have it leak out.

Considering the low MAF readings it could be a hint of turbo issues. You say the boost isn't reduced but the MAF readings are low. I wonder what happens when coolant is getting sprayed into the intake tract? It IS hot enough to make steam, steam has a lot of volume to it too....SOOO the turbo could be blowing a combination of coolant and air out of the compressor side.

That could account for the knock perhaps too. You'd technically be running rich but I don't know what coolant does to the effective octane in the fuel mix. If it reduces it then there ya go.

See if there's green crap coming out of your intercooler if you take it off. I'm curious now.

Last edited by BrandonDrums; 03-20-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:01 AM   #14
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Also, I'd encourage you to get a turbo rebuild kit and just rebuild your next turbo. It's extremely easy, the hardest part is marking the relationship of the turbine and compressor wheels and getting them lined back up the same way when you put them back together.

Ideally, you'd just send off the turbine wheel (which is attached to the shaft), compressor wheel, compressor nut and thrust bearings to a machine shop that does turbo balancing to get everything balanced together. However, from the factory only the turbine and compressor wheels get dynamically balanced and everything else just gets thrown on.

You'll be surprised how extremely simple turbos are to rebuild and you'll likely kick yourself for not rebuilding your previous turbos because the parts you need are only about 50-75 bucks.

Anyway, I'm really leaning toward the turbo being the culprit now.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:47 AM   #15
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He has an automatic transmission, so you can rule out the throwout bearing
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:18 PM   #16
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You can have rod knock that doesn't make any noise in neutral...I have thtt right now! However, after a year it would have thrown a rod by now so scratch that. My second guess would be a bad throw-out bearing on your clutch.
Yeah the car is a 4eat, so cant be throw out bearing, and its done this the exact same on 2 different transmissions. Ive had the car for 2 years, but its been doing the noise for a year.

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As for the coolant issue, you might have the radiator caps reversed. But it also could be head gaskets. Is there any oil residue in the coolant along with the bubbles? Are the bubbles smelling a lot like gasoline or exhaust? If not, it could be a bad cap that's not letting the system vent.
my car only has one actual metal cap, its on the reservior. The other is a plastic cap on the overflow. I replaced the cap on the reservior. Today i noticed there is a brownish oily residue on the insides of the overflow tank. not good i assume.

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You also mentioned a bad turbo in the mix at one point or another. They are water-cooled. I'd be surprised if gas was getting in that way, usually they would leak rather than push crap through into the coolant but who knows at this point. The turbo is perhaps the only thing on the car besides the engine itself that is exposed to enough pressure (exhaust side pressure, not compressor end) to push crap into the coolant system rather than just have it leak out.
Well ive read that the TD04s have a water jacket, which doesn't allow the coolant to actually touch the shaft. Although my old turbos blew white smoke like crazy?? This turbo doesnt smoke. And ive had friends follow behind me, they said they see no smoke out the exhaust when i drive it hard, just a quick puff of black smoke (fuel) right when i floor it.

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Considering the low MAF readings it could be a hint of turbo issues. You say the boost isn't reduced but the MAF readings are low. I wonder what happens when coolant is getting sprayed into the intake tract? It IS hot enough to make steam, steam has a lot of volume to it too....SOOO the turbo could be blowing a combination of coolant and air out of the compressor side.
Yeah i'm confused about the MAF readings?? The car is still reaching above 15psi of boost on stage 2 map, i'm curious if the MAF itself is bad?

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That could account for the knock perhaps too. You'd technically be running rich but I don't know what coolant does to the effective octane in the fuel mix. If it reduces it then there ya go.
maybe the headgasket is sealing when driven easy, but when under boost, the pressure opens up the leak, pressuring the coolant system, and allowing air to escape from the cylinders? Then there would be more fuel than air and the ratios would be off, but wouldn't that make it rich, could that cause detonation?
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:44 PM   #17
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Eh I didn't know about the water jacket thing and sorry about missing the auto trans part.

The water pump is driven by the timing belt so flow does increase with RPM and pressure would also increase with heat.

It could be the headgasket man, everything else has been a dead end and I wonder if the noise and coolant issue are related. It could be but I've never heard of head gaskets making noise but the coolant issues certainly sound like there's no real other culprit.

This noise issue has thrown me for a loop no doubt. Perhaps it's just a fart noise when hot coolant blows past into the combustion chamber and/or the combusting gasses blow past the gasket into the cooling chambers. It WOULD explain the browning of the coolant and the air in the heater core along with the knock issue. The MAF issue, who knows but if steam is making its way into one of the cylinders, that's still a good bit of volume not being fulfilled by intake air.

As for the turbo, castings can crack. Water jacket or not, Iron is easily rusted and turbos are exposed to a lot of heat. Older VF series turbos notoriously crack at the wastegate port all the time. I would still be keen to checking out the turbo before tearing down the whole engine. Perhaps just checking the residue in the intercooler might give you a clue.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:25 PM   #18
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Eh I didn't know about the water jacket thing and sorry about missing the auto trans part.
no apologies necessary man!

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It could be the headgasket man, everything else has been a dead end and I wonder if the noise and coolant issue are related. It could be but I've never heard of head gaskets making noise but the coolant issues certainly sound like there's no real other culprit.
well, thanks to SkateAndDestroy subtracting timing from my current map, the 4-6k detonating is now gone (thanks again).

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This noise issue has thrown me for a loop no doubt. Perhaps it's just a fart noise when hot coolant blows past into the combustion chamber and/or the combusting gasses blow past the gasket into the cooling chambers. It WOULD explain the browning of the coolant and the air in the heater core along with the knock issue. The MAF issue, who knows but if steam is making its way into one of the cylinders, that's still a good bit of volume not being fulfilled by intake air.
the coolant bubbling and brown residue in the overflow tank still scares me, and the MAF readings still arent where they should be. Im totally lost with this.

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As for the turbo, castings can crack. Water jacket or not, Iron is easily rusted and turbos are exposed to a lot of heat. Older VF series turbos notoriously crack at the wastegate port all the time. I would still be keen to checking out the turbo before tearing down the whole engine. Perhaps just checking the residue in the intercooler might give you a clue.
yeah, the old turbo on the car was definitely letting coolant get past it, it was smoking like a freight train. Another thing, all three turbos that have been on the car made this exact same noise right as its spooling, only at partial throttle. No noise if at full throttle where the wastegate is closed. I took this video from evrich here on Nasioc, the noise starts at 4 seconds.

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Old 03-21-2013, 08:46 PM   #19
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^ familiar with wastegate flutter? look it up and tell me if it sounds plausible to your noise.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:39 PM   #20
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^ familiar with wastegate flutter? look it up and tell me if it sounds plausible to your noise.
Nope, doesnt sound like wastegate flutter. its not a fluttering of air, it sounds exactly like what 4 seconds into the video sounds like. a metallic clicking/ticking/chattering in the turbo. Happens only at like 20-30% throttle at 2500 rpm, cant hear it under boost (notice in the video he is only barely on the throttle when the noise starts). Started on my old turbo right after going stage 2 with the catless DP and catless UP, and P&L braided oil feed line. Has done the same thing on 3 different turbos. Coming from the top of the turbo. I also heard an 04-05 STI in person making the same noise. The subi specialists that did the work on my car, said on the old turbo, the fins on the compressor inlet turbine were sharpening from scraping the sides of the housing.

at 1:30 am, I'm sitting here pondering if the crap-load of detonation this car has always had, is what finally blew out the head gaskets? I'm really stunned that in a year of hard driving and some TERRIBLE detonation, that the pistons didn't crack, or the ringlands (hopefully, as I'm still burning way too much oil). But why would a car with a totally stock setup, and stock tune experience so much detonation. It started the detonation totally stock (after a year of owning it), and after the cobb stage 1 map, and with the cobb stage 2 map. It did not have detonation when i bought it. Only thing i did to the car was change the plugs, and maintenance. With a stage 2 setup, should i consider going with colder plugs, and what gap should i go with? I remember emailing a local tuner about going stage 3 vf39, and he recommended one step colder plugs with a .024" gap for the stage 3 setup.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help!

Last edited by amorgan93; 03-22-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:35 PM   #21
the_newt
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If you haven't done your compression/leakdown test yet (which my semi-acceptable reading comprehension says no), see if a shop has a boroscope or something similar you can stick in the cylinders while you have the plugs out and see if you can determine the condition of your pistons from a top view and also the bores. The compression test seems necessary at this point and it's easier than pulling the motor and removing the heads.

Do we have a definite time for when the detonation started?
So it started making this horrible detonation-like noise on it's own? Could something be loose? I just finished reading a thread about a guy with a redline issue and when he pulled the motor his rear intake cam cap was loose. Unlikely to happen to somebody else with a not built (read: never been opened to be modified) motor but something to keep in mind. I can't think of why you'd have so much timing induced knock spontaneously appear like you were showing. Do you have a thread detailing this issue when it popped up?

And if it's not wastegate flutter but still coming from the top of the turbo, could the actuator diaphragm have failed or be tearing? Or has a vacuum or signal line come off/cracked somewhere? On my 11 wrx, the bpv signal hose was just barely on the manifold. Apples to oranges I know but just trying to highlight things aren't exactly rock solid from the factory.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_newt View Post
If you haven't done your compression/leakdown test yet (which my semi-acceptable reading comprehension says no), see if a shop has a boroscope or something similar you can stick in the cylinders while you have the plugs out and see if you can determine the condition of your pistons from a top view and also the bores. The compression test seems necessary at this point and it's easier than pulling the motor and removing the heads.

Do we have a definite time for when the detonation started?
So it started making this horrible detonation-like noise on it's own? Could something be loose? I just finished reading a thread about a guy with a redline issue and when he pulled the motor his rear intake cam cap was loose. Unlikely to happen to somebody else with a not built (read: never been opened to be modified) motor but something to keep in mind. I can't think of why you'd have so much timing induced knock spontaneously appear like you were showing. Do you have a thread detailing this issue when it popped up?
This POST was back in June of 2012, and it was doing it for a while before that. Yes, it started on its own, when the car was totally stock. The title of the thread is misleading, it did not start the detonating after going stage 1, the original catted Uppipe was the source of the noise that the thread was named after. If I'm not mistaken, the Fine knock learn went up to -9.0 in the RPM range on the stock tune and stage 1 tune. Same with Stage 2 tune, and i never realized how terribly the detonation actually felt, until SkateAndDestroy tuned it out with less timing, and it ran 100x smoother, but not near as fast. The only thing i ever changed was the spark plugs (ILFR6A at the stock gap, then NGK Coppers at .035), and oil/filter.

A while before the car was parked because of the front differential failure (ide say half a year ago or more) it started the overheating issues (not fully overheating but almost in the red), constant air pocket getting into the coolant. Did a block test/ Hydro Carbon test, came back negative for head gasket failure. Car ran great if driven like a grandma, but once getting into boost it apparently forced open a leak in the head gasket, allowing exhaust pressure in the radiator, spewing coolant out the overflow tank. The car overheats (not fully but close to the red), then heater blows cold air, spews coolant out overflow, its become a continuous pattern. I pop the hood, bleed air pocket out of coolant system, add coolant, and burp the system again. All is fine until i get into boost a few times. Couple days ago it overheated 25 miles away from home. I did the norm, added coolant, burped it, etc.. On interstate on the way back home, had cruise set, and i just happened to glance down at the temp gauge, it was all the way to the top, way up in the red. I pulled off interstate, almost got in a wreck doing so. Let it cool. Cranked it up and drove to the nearest interstate ramp where it immediately went back to the red. Turned it off, sat on the ramp, then drove the car another 1/2 mile, pulled off at a store and opened the radiator cap, it blew some steam, bubbled out another gallon of coolant. I waited, and waited, and added 1/2 gallon coolant but ran out, and being totally fed up with the car since it totally ruined the night with the Girlfriend (we left what we were doing early because of the first overheating), shut the hood and drove it another 4 miles home (get up to 55mph, turn off the engine when the coolant temp touched the red mark, cruise until i was at about 20mph with engine off, then crank it and get back to 55, turn it off, etc...repeated and such till i got home, where i immediately popped the hood, removed the radiator cap, added coolant, and let it cycle to cool the engine back to normal temp. Now, I'm 100% sure the head gaskets are blown, still no oil or antifreeze mixing, but tons of bubbles in the coolant system, loss of power, inconsistent/rough idling, lots of white smoke when not at OP temp (still none when warm), they are blown without a doubt. Also the knock sensor is now picking up -1.0 - -4.0 fine knock learn right at 2800-3000 rpm, although the engine doesn't knock, tick, or sound any different than it did before it fully overheated, so I'm assuming its because of the totally crapped out head gasket, messing with air/fuel ratios. Could a leaky head gasket have been causing the detonating the whole time, is that possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_newt View Post
And if it's not wastegate flutter but still coming from the top of the turbo, could the actuator diaphragm have failed or be tearing? Or has a vacuum or signal line come off/cracked somewhere? On my 11 wrx, the bpv signal hose was just barely on the manifold. Apples to oranges I know but just trying to highlight things aren't exactly rock solid from the factory.
ive looked, double checked, and replaced many vacuum lines on the car, as well as the guy who put the transmission in for me, no problems there. All 3 turbos that have been on the have made this noise, definitely coming from the turbo. The noise first appeared immediately after installing the STI catless Uppipe, Invidia Catless Downpipe, and P&L Braided steel AVCS/tubro oil-feed line.

Last edited by amorgan93; 03-26-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:32 PM   #23
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As boring and tedious as it would be, have you considered replacing all those parts and reinstalling them one at a time to see if they recreate the noise from the turbo? All you've done is remove two cats from the exhaust tract and I wouldn't think they were muffling anything. And if you're removing parts, see if there is any axial or radial play in the CHRA? It could have had a little bit of play that became exacerbated by the higher boost levels when you went to stage 2 but that's just a wild ass guess.

As for the headgasket, I still have no clue what could have caused the knocking and pulling timing. Is it possible the ECU pulled enough timing to get the EGTs high enough to damage something? I recall hearing stories about people driving down gravel and the knock sensor picking up the gravel hitting the block as knock and retarding the timing to piston eating levels but I doubt that's still possible given this was easily a decade ago.

Is the motor coming out or is the car going away?
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:13 PM   #24
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That sounds like td04 wastegate flutter to me mine sounded like a really bad exhaust leak maybe try adjusting the wastegate arm a little shorter and see if goes away and if it doesnt just put it back. Very common on the td04 after you go aftermarket downpipe.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_newt View Post
As boring and tedious as it would be, have you considered replacing all those parts and reinstalling them one at a time to see if they recreate the noise from the turbo? All you've done is remove two cats from the exhaust tract and I wouldn't think they were muffling anything. And if you're removing parts, see if there is any axial or radial play in the CHRA? It could have had a little bit of play that became exacerbated by the higher boost levels when you went to stage 2 but that's just a wild ass guess.

As for the headgasket, I still have no clue what could have caused the knocking and pulling timing. Is it possible the ECU pulled enough timing to get the EGTs high enough to damage something? I recall hearing stories about people driving down gravel and the knock sensor picking up the gravel hitting the block as knock and retarding the timing to piston eating levels but I doubt that's still possible given this was easily a decade ago.

Is the motor coming out or is the car going away?
Car is gonna get a lower mileage 2.5 swap, or a rebuild on the current engine, I was thinking about selling it to get a WRX, but I'm not sure if I'de like the insurance rate on the WRX, plus the FXT is a bit more advanced than a WRX of the same year, and can handle similarly with a suspension swap. And i couldn't get much for a FXT with a blown head gasket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nate_fisher View Post
That sounds like td04 wastegate flutter to me mine sounded like a really bad exhaust leak maybe try adjusting the wastegate arm a little shorter and see if goes away and if it doesnt just put it back. Very common on the td04 after you go aftermarket downpipe.
Well i tried tightening it several times, then loosening it. Then swapped a newer looking wastegate from a TD04 in the basement, and adjusted it back and forth. Couldn't get the noise to go away. :/
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