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Old 03-30-2013, 02:39 PM   #26
2011boostdwrx
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Stick with the VF52 send it six star speed for the billet wheel upgrade and PNP for $500-550 run E85 call it a day. I have been through three (3) turbos already fully built 6-spd swap in my 11. You can't have top end and bottom end at the same time and great spool.

Stay away from FMIC and your spool will be quick as hell with the billet upgrade and PNP. Better yet make a week end of it, bring it to Akuma Motorsports in Woodbridge NJ and they will tune the car with the upgrade.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:42 PM   #27
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Oh yeah and all the American versus foriegn talk common guys, this is a subaru forum. We know our engines are finiky, we are running 4-less cylinders and turbos put increadible stress on our components. I have a die hard Mustang friend and yes he has had less problems then I, but no where near as modded.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyPitbull View Post

I thought you might say that. Really though, I truly would like to hear about these American engines running double the factory horsepower with stock reliabilty. You said there are "many", and I am really curious which ones they could be.

I built american V8's for my whole life before messing with Subarus, and I cannot think of one motor that could run double factory HP with high reliabilty without changes to some internals.
Not arguing your point but full blown performance has a FRS running 500-600hp on the stock engine with probably around 80 dyno pulls on it.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:51 PM   #29
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Good point to the above post. I'm going to say it al has to do with luck and not abusing 24/7 lol. I remember back when I still had my
Cobalt ss/tc those motors were good up to 450 before having to do valve spring upgrades and so on. I wasn't one of the lucky ones....lol
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
Try an American car then. Many stock bottom ends run double the power with stock reliability.
Entertain me with which late model domestic motors you're talking about. Even LS7s can crack ringlands with just a cam and mild bolt-ons. My friend cracked a ringland on his LS3 C6 running a Vortech and making about 150whp over stock. This guy is a brain with tuning and modding/rebuilding motors, both German and domestic. Even the new Coyote 5.0s have their own problems once you push them past about 30% over stock. And then there's that 6MT backing the Coyote.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
Try an American car then. Many stock bottom ends run double the power with stock reliability.
Waiting for some info about this myself. Be very interested in updating my knowledge. Links, articles, forums, tea leaves... Thanks
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:54 PM   #32
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guys the FRS/BRZ motors are very different then ours, hell the 11 has year 2000 (or later) technology to it. They really have not changed anything but displacement. The new DI motors are very different. Yes i agree, but for every one 500 WHP subaru there are at least 20 500 WHP domestics. I love my car so I am not trying to start a battle, just the way it is.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post

Entertain me with which late model domestic motors you're talking about. Even LS7s can crack ringlands with just a cam and mild bolt-ons. My friend cracked a ringland on his LS3 C6 running a Vortech and making about 150whp over stock. This guy is a brain with tuning and modding/rebuilding motors, both German and domestic. Even the new Coyote 5.0s have their own problems once you push them past about 30% over stock. And then there's that 6MT backing the Coyote.
He doesn't have a brain if he boosted hyper e pistons. Anybody with a brain knows most na engines have far too much compression to try to boost on the stock hyper e pistons.
But hey you two are gurus n junk.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:30 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
He doesn't have a brain if he boosted hyper e pistons. Anybody with a brain knows most na engines have far too much compression to try to boost on the stock hyper e pistons.
But hey you two are gurus n junk.
Kinda kills the whole stock bottom end deal though if we are changing out pistons......Kinda like if you change out to forged pistons in a WRX you can go up to what 450whp or so?

I'm still waiting for some links or something so I can read up. Very serious about updating my knowledge and heck if I can jump into an american car and put down double the stock HP with just boltons and keep my stock reliability then I'm all for it. I'm a gear head so always wanting to learn and update my knowledge.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Kinjirra View Post

Kinda kills the whole stock bottom end deal though if we are changing out pistons......Kinda like if you change out to forged pistons in a WRX you can go up to what 450whp or so?

I'm still waiting for some links or something so I can read up. Very serious about updating my knowledge and heck if I can jump into an american car and put down double the stock HP with just boltons and keep my stock reliability then I'm all for it. I'm a gear head so always wanting to learn and update my knowledge.
That comment was in regards to his friend being a "brain" with cars, yet doing something only an idiot does (boosting a high compression motor with hypereutectic pistons). Or one who plans for certain engine failure (ie: an idiot).

GM3800 series II+ would be one that is a major eye opener for you. They have regularly achieved double output with no problem. The l67 has been pushed nearly quadruple the power output.... on the OEM hyperE pistons no less.

You can't look at the engines on the highest end as they are already pushed closer to the limit. But you'll be surprised what you still find in the American car world.

SBF/SBCs have been doing exceptional things for decades. The L98, LT1, LS1 all our out some serious numbers with only heads/cam.

Go ahead and rebuke with pointless trivial secondhand info, excuses and lackwit propaganda.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 04-01-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:28 AM   #36
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The "terminator" Cobras are pretty impressive. As are the Cobra Rs from the 90s (10s on stock bottom end). And the Boss 302. If you really go spendy, the Ford GT is amazing. The LS engines are beastly, but prolly not reliable with double the power on the lower end models. Still, 500-600whp is pretty impressive.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:06 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post

That comment was in regards to his friend being a "brain" with cars, yet doing something only an idiot does (boosting a high compression motor with hypereutectic pistons). Or one who plans for certain engine failure (ie: an idiot).

GM3800 series II+ would be one that is a major eye opener for you. They have regularly achieved double output with no problem. The l67 has been pushed nearly quadruple the power output.... on the OEM hyperE pistons no less.

You can't look at the engines on the highest end as they are already pushed closer to the limit. But you'll be surprised what you still find in the American car world.

SBF/SBCs have been doing exceptional things for decades. The L98, LT1, LS1 all our out some serious numbers with only heads/cam.

Go ahead and rebuke with pointless trivial secondhand info, excuses and lackwit propaganda.
Defensive much? Asked for information and you provided. Thanks.

I never said you couldnt make power with american engines. However to point was made about stock reliability at those power levels and thats what i challeneged.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
That comment was in regards to his friend being a "brain" with cars, yet doing something only an idiot does (boosting a high compression motor with hypereutectic pistons). Or one who plans for certain engine failure (ie: an idiot).

GM3800 series II+ would be one that is a major eye opener for you. They have regularly achieved double output with no problem. The l67 has been pushed nearly quadruple the power output.... on the OEM hyperE pistons no less.

You can't look at the engines on the highest end as they are already pushed closer to the limit. But you'll be surprised what you still find in the American car world.

SBF/SBCs have been doing exceptional things for decades. The L98, LT1, LS1 all our out some serious numbers with only heads/cam.

Go ahead and rebuke with pointless trivial secondhand info, excuses and lackwit propaganda.

Those are all stout motors you listed, but double their factory power with stock reliability? I think not.

Listing two GM motors (the 3800 and L67) where the internals were strong and pretty much everything else on the motor was garbage is comical. Yeah, the bottom ends will hold up, but you will be replacing dang near everything else. The V8's you listed are all capable of huge power ... with internal work .. which is not what you claimed when you said there were many American cars running double factory hp, on stock bottom ends, with stock reliability.

You can throw around your witty 1-liners and passive aggressive tone all you want, but 2 motors is not "many", and adding cams and heads is not a stock motor.

Last edited by GrumpyPitbull; 04-01-2013 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by GrumpyPitbull View Post

Those are all stout motors you listed, but double their factory power with stock reliability? I think not.

Listing two GM motors (the 3800 and L67) where the internals were strong and pretty much everything else on the motor was garbage is comical. Yeah, the bottom ends will hold up, but you will be replacing dang near everything else. The V8's you listed are all capable of huge power ... with internal work .. which is not what you claimed when you said there were many American cars running double factory hp, on stock bottom ends, with stock reliability.

You can throw around your witty 1-liners and passive aggressive tone all you want, but 2 motors is not "many", and adding cams and heads is not a stock motor.
Way to change what we are talking about entirely.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 04-01-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:52 PM   #40
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I vote for vf52 on e85 with racer x fmic. I went 11.82 with that setup on street tires. Made 337whp 411 tq...350whp is a silly goal you could make that on certain dynos and not on others. As long as you can drive easy low 12s and mid 12s on pump. Best pump gas time was 12.33 for me. V8s are over rated
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #41
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350 was really an arbitrary number... It seemed to have caused a ruckus up above. It seems as if everyone wants 400+ which is why I opted for a lower, real world, daily number.

I originally purchased the Cobb SF and AP. Then Perrin TBE. Then a larger top mount, ebcs, and fuel pump which I never installed. Like I said, I wanted to tune once, not have to make several 3-4 our round trips to Va Beach or DC with every mod. Right now, I'm stage 1 with everything else sold but the tmic.

Unfortunately e85 isn't an option for me. ;( I need to call my "top secret" contact tomorrow and get going on this.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:13 PM   #42
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V8s are over rated
Their exhaust isn't.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:20 AM   #43
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See if you can hook up with some locals from the regional section, maybe catch a ride along. The mods you bought and sold might be pretty satisfiying without spending thousands on a turbo that ultimately lacks the DDable punch the little VF has.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:07 AM   #44
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I second the "catch a ride" idea. It is super helpful and people are generally pretty cool about it as well.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:08 AM   #45
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See if you can hook up with some locals from the regional section, maybe catch a ride along. The mods you bought and sold might be pretty satisfiying without spending thousands on a turbo that ultimately lacks the DDable punch the little VF has.
I've actually never thought of that... good idea - Thanks!
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:27 AM   #46
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Arent you in richmond? Come out with us man, plenty of different builds, you can ride in any. Thurs nights 7pm, and every other saturday at c&c.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by GrumpyPitbull View Post
I thought you might say that. Really though, I truly would like to hear about these American engines running double the factory horsepower with stock reliabilty. You said there are "many", and I am really curious which ones they could be.

I built american V8's for my whole life before messing with Subarus, and I cannot think of one motor that could run double factory HP with high reliabilty without changes to some internals.
For the sake of Laughable argument:

1976-1986 corvette's HP ranging from 180-230, the carb-ed 350's you could double with a bigger carb, and a set of long tube headers, and maybe a Cam, but that should be a gimmie since they're N/A and not turbo/supercharged.

as a real world modern example:

I happen to also own a G8 GT it has a 6.0L L76 stock is 363hp (about 305whp) with the same type of upgrades (CAI, Cam, headers, exhaust and a good tune) you can get to 470hp (375whp) N/A on a DD, add a ton of nitrous and maybe you get close but it's not on all of the time so its a bit of cheating

In the last decade no car manufacturer leaves that much on the table, to say otherwise is just foolish.

BTW my G8 stomps my WRX in everything but gas mileage and racing in the snow including stopping distance (110vs114).
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:44 PM   #48
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Unless a turbo is gonna yield me 100whp gain I find it pointless for small upgrades but thats just me. V8s break too..all racecars when pushed hard will break. I don't care about what brand it is. Guys can say the new supercharged mustangs are awesome cause someone went 9.9s with stock bottom end. Well they shaved 2 seconds from a stock one give or take some....Junior and myself did the same thing with a stock turbo wrx...shaved two seconds. The difference is a wrx cost 25k and a new blown stang is 60k or more. Of course they will have stronger internals. I know if I spent that kinda money I wouldn't wanna have to worry about it blowing up with some boost haha. I love when v8 guys say I will just spray my car and smoke you....I say ya but how long will your motor last? Could be 1 pass or 200....you never know when you push the envelope

A wise man once told me "it doesnt matter how hp you have if you can't plant it"
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #49
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I'm new on the forum, but coming from owning multiple GM vehicles, I will say that the stock bottom end in an LT1, like listed above, is quite stout.

On my other forums, guys would run stock bottom LT1 Caprices, and Impalas well into the 11's and 10's. Stock they ran 15-16 sec 1/4 mile times, on a good day. All with just heads, cam, and the supporting mods (headers, intake, exhaust, stall, gears, etc.)

Another good example, would be the GMC Syclone/Typhoon. GMC stuck a turbo on a 4.3L V6, ran it through an AWD system and called it a day. Now, 20 years later, they still can easily run double the factory 280 hp all with a simple head porting, mild cam, and turbo swap. But, that's just my input on the subject.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:24 PM   #50
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Want a stock bottomend car-boner?

Read up on this car. It runs an oem unaltered, untouched bottom end l67 from gm.

http://sites.commercecreators.com/fo...owse&pageid=53

By the way that's 30whp shy of quadruple oem power output on a stock shortblock... And on hypereutectic pistons no less.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 04-09-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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