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Old 04-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #51
Vostok 7
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Originally Posted by 808subbie View Post
Don't get me wrong I love Mercedes, there's just somthing wrong with the new line up, I think it's the rear bumper the front grill and the dodge charger doors.
Yeah, certainly. As opposed to your car which looks exactly like a Mazdaspeed 3.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
Yeah, certainly. As opposed to your car which looks exactly like a Mazdaspeed 3.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:09 PM   #53
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Wait for the price. This is why you won't get a 350hp engine in the new STI.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #54
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Wait for the price. This is why you won't get a 350hp engine in the new STI.
It's $48ish k starting, which isn't that much of a premium for what you're getting in comparison to a limited STi.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #55
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An STI Limited is $38,415. $10k for a better interior and a crappier AWD system, while I'm sure will appeal to some, isn't my idea of a reasonable premium in the performance compact arena.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:13 PM   #56
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That is because an AMG mercedes isn't as much a performance compact, as it is an entry lux sedan, with a performance package (the AMG bit)

As Ron White makes fun of his former in-laws...

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I bought this big two-story custom van back when I was married. I forgot to tell you this, it was getting kinda cool, it had the James Bond couch in the back, when you push a button, the couch automatically turns into a bed, and I was like, "Well, that's cool."
I finally got something over those Mercedes-Benz-driving in-laws of mine, you know what I mean?
When I first bought the van, I was real proud of it. I took it straight over to my brother-in-law's house to show it off, 'cause he's such a prick.
He takes one look at my new van and he goes: [in snobbish accent]
"I can't believe you didn't buy a Mercedes-Benz."
-They don't make a van.
"Ron, I don't think you fully understand the intricacies of Mercedes-Benz engineering. Why, I got the three-inch windshield wiper that keeps my headlight clean in a rainstorm."
-I got a place to [_] your sister.
I don't know why they didn't like me.
A CLA 45 AMG owner would likely condescend to anyone comparing their "Mercedes Benz Engineering" to a mere Subaru.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
An STI Limited is $38,415. $10k for a better interior and a crappier AWD system, while I'm sure will appeal to some, isn't my idea of a reasonable premium in the performance compact arena.
Tell me, what do you think an STi with factory Recaros and a properly built motor would cost new?

Personally, I'd put the CLA 45 AMG more on par with an STi Spec C RA-R, not a limited STi. Granted we can't get an STi Spec C RA-R here, the cost would be a little more on par with each other, power as well.

Presently, I'm unaware of any real life reviews of the car that would outline its actual performance.

I mean, are we really doubting the performance of a car before it has even been properly tested?

Also, not trying to turn this in to, with $10k an STi would ruin a GTR type debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
A CLA 45 AMG owner would likely condescend to anyone comparing their "Mercedes Benz Engineering" to a mere Subaru.
Easy on the "generalities" there boss.

Don't freak out and write me an essay with indirect insults now, please, for the sake of the others in this thread.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:52 PM   #58
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What makes MB's AWD system inferior to Subaru's? Is the 4matic system different than, say, an old ML320's AWD?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:00 PM   #59
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What makes MB's AWD system inferior to Subaru's? Is the 4matic system different than, say, an old ML320's AWD?
I thought CLA was longitudinal, but someone mentioned to me that CLA is actually Merc's new foray into transverse drivelines.


It is likely Haldex AWD, and probably front-biased.

Just like Audi calls Haldex "Quattro", even though it is definitely not the longitudinal, 3-diff Quattro AWD system.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #60
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Yeah, certainly. As opposed to your car which looks exactly like a Mazdaspeed 3.
hahaha right... even if it did look like a speed3 it would still look better than this Bavarian dodge charger.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #61
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^

It is front wheel biased, as I read, and only sends power to the rear wheels when slip is detected, correct?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #62
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hahaha right... even if it did look like a speed3 it would still look better than this Bavarian dodge charger.
I must be blind, I don't see the slightest resemblance to a Dodge Charger... where are you seeing that?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #63
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Easy on the "generalities" there boss.

Don't freak out and write me an essay with indirect insults now, please, for the sake of the others in this thread.
Touché.

Although I think everyone, non-MB buyers and MB-buyers alike would agree that the MB brand is a prestige nameplate that is touted for it's aspirational appeal, and that Mercedes Benz marketing is oriented toward that fact. Subaru is not seen, nor intended to be seen as an aspirational brand, even if one or two models are desirable to enthusiasts.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-03-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #64
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Touché.

Although I think everyone, non-MB buyers and MB-buyers alike would agree that the MB brand is a prestige nameplate that is touted for it's aspirational appeal, and that Mercedes Benz marketing is oriented toward that fact.
Hey man, I'm just giving you a hard time - laugh!

I know MB has a "loyal to the brand" crowd, but there's got to be a portion of their consumer base that loves what their AMG line can do.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #65
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I must be blind, I don't see the slightest resemblance to a Dodge Charger... where are you seeing that?





Yes, no? I may have had a few today.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #66
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^

I just don't see it man, but I've been eating crayons all day...
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:33 PM   #67
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Yes, no? I may have had a few today.
not really
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:59 PM   #68
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Ok my bad, my bad.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:02 PM   #69
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I wasn't saying that it didn't.

AWD? It's no better than Haldex. It's FWD-based with a PTU.. did you read the OP?

Nicer interior? They're both plastic tubs. Nicer exterior? That's purely subjective.. but I think M-B is leading the way in hideous cars, so no thanks.
Whatever argument you were trying to make was just rendered null and void. I've actually spent some time behind the wheel of a 302 and I've owned and driven a fair share of AWD turbocharged cars. I'll take the 302 any day of the week (that doesn't involve freezing rain the forecast).
ok well if you wanna argue...

Boss 302 was $43k starting so $5, not $8k difference which is quite small.

Yes, AWD is AWD regardless of whatever nonsense arguments people make against it being Haldex or whatnot.

Styling is subjective, yes. But if you honestly believe the Mustang has a nicer interior then you're delusional. The CLA can be fitted with carbon fiber trim throughout, so no, its not a plastic tub despite it having plastic elements like any other car under $100k.

And last, this thing is much more a daily driver with its turbo 4 than a V8 track oriented car with "adjustable shocks". AWD is an added plus for me living in the Northeast, and I'm sure its a requirement for many drivers on this Subaru forum.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:13 PM   #70
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Someone I work with has a 2009 C class and the interior is on par with the new impreza. Not in a good way. It is the AWD model and theres a loud whirring noise over 50mph that started a week after he bought it (out of warranty used car). Immediately after buying it he made a little collage and put it on Facebook and a bunch of people liked it on Facebook. In conclusion if you want a car that is pretty crappy but will impress your Facebook friends, buy an MB. He didn't even want to test drive any other cars, despite my urging him to at least sit in a 3 series. He just wanted a Mercedes.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Someone I work with has a 2009 C class and the interior is on par with the new impreza. Not in a good way. It is the AWD model and theres a loud whirring noise over 50mph that started a week after he bought it (out of warranty used car). Immediately after buying it he made a little collage and put it on Facebook and a bunch of people liked it on Facebook. In conclusion if you want a car that is pretty crappy but will impress your Facebook friends, buy an MB. He didn't even want to test drive any other cars, despite my urging him to at least sit in a 3 series. He just wanted a Mercedes.
I agree that the pre-facelift C class had a really crappy interior unbecoming of the three pointed star. But to say that it is on par with the new Impreza interior is really pushing it IMO. The difference in material quality is still significant. The new interior on the facelifted C class, on the other hand, is at least two notches above anything Subaru has ever made.

As for MB being an aspirational brand, I absolutely agree. And what that means is that even if you are someone who doesn't care much about the badge, you have no choice but to pay for it since the price tag already reflects the prestige factor. Just how much that badge is worth is a tough question, because we have basically no real premium car brand without an impressive badge to compare to. I suspect it's on the order of ~$5K.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:36 PM   #72
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Glad someone said it on page 2 - Evo FQ 400, 400 hp... regardless of who was subcontracted to produce them still an official Ralliart model.

'Highest HP 4 cylinder' I was looking for 400hp out of this post.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:06 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
I agree that the pre-facelift C class had a really crappy interior unbecoming of the three pointed star. But to say that it is on par with the new Impreza interior is really pushing it IMO. The difference in material quality is still significant. The new interior on the facelifted C class, on the other hand, is at least two notches above anything Subaru has ever made.

As for MB being an aspirational brand, I absolutely agree. And what that means is that even if you are someone who doesn't care much about the badge, you have no choice but to pay for it since the price tag already reflects the prestige factor. Just how much that badge is worth is a tough question, because we have basically no real premium car brand without an impressive badge to compare to. I suspect it's on the order of ~$5K.
What he said. See our discussion here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...8&postcount=35

CN: Facelift C = notbadobama
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:46 PM   #74
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Glad someone said it on page 2 - Evo FQ 400, 400 hp... regardless of who was subcontracted to produce them still an official Ralliart model.

'Highest HP 4 cylinder' I was looking for 400hp out of this post.
the FQ400 came outta the factory as a regular evo and was sent to tuners(WRC Developments and Ecutek) in the uk to create the FQ400. hardly a production car.

Last edited by max pl; 04-04-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:36 PM   #75
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Tell me, what do you think an STi with factory Recaros and a properly built motor would cost new?

Personally, I'd put the CLA 45 AMG more on par with an STi Spec C RA-R, not a limited STi. Granted we can't get an STi Spec C RA-R here, the cost would be a little more on par with each other, power as well.

Presently, I'm unaware of any real life reviews of the car that would outline its actual performance.

I mean, are we really doubting the performance of a car before it has even been properly tested?

Also, not trying to turn this in to, with $10k an STi would ruin a GTR type debate.
You make plenty of good points and I don't mean to make it sound like I don't get what you're saying. I do.

I just don't see the point of buying an expensive car like this when the whole idea of a turbocharged 4 cylinder is that they're cheap to mod for big horsepower. AMG is making a pre-tuned tuner car for people who have money to buy real performance cars and I don't get the appeal.

I feel the same way about the S20x Imprezas.. but I see where they're value lies in countries where there are displacement-based taxation.. we don't have any such restrictions in the USA.. so why limit yourself to small engines when you don't need to if you aren't just a hardcore Subaru fanboi. The thing with this car, though.. is that the turbo 4 cylinder M-B fanbois are an even smaller subset in American culture.. so I just don't see who this car is for.

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ok well if you wanna argue...

Boss 302 was $43k starting so $5, not $8k difference which is quite small.
I may have looked at the '12 302 MSRP when I looked it up.. $40,310. When you consider the performance gap, it's no small difference.

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Yes, AWD is AWD regardless of whatever nonsense arguments people make against it being Haldex or whatnot.
I'm up for an argument.. but you've got to put in some effort. This is easily one of the dumbest things I've read on NASIOC. The Merc in question here doesn't even have a center differential... it's the equivalent of ActiveAWD found on Subaru's cheap 4EAT models and now on the CVTs. It's worthless in a performance environment and just good enough to qualify for an AWD badge on the rear bumper. The STI's DCCD will actually defy the car's horrible weight balance under WOT around a track... to say that "AWD is AWD" is just a display of complete ignorance on the subject.

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Originally Posted by max pl View Post
Styling is subjective, yes. But if you honestly believe the Mustang has a nicer interior then you're delusional. The CLA can be fitted with carbon fiber trim throughout, so no, its not a plastic tub despite it having plastic elements like any other car under $100k.
Carbon fiber trim? There are clapped out Honda Civics with APC headlights and carbon fiber trim running around my neighborhood right now.. carbon fiber trim is an expensive cloth soaked in a plastic resin.. it's still ****ing plastic. The Mustang has good materials in the touch points and when you're at the track that's all that matters. I wouldn't expect someone who thinks all AWD systems are created equal to understand where I'm coming from, so lets just agree to disagree.

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And last, this thing is much more a daily driver with its turbo 4 than a V8 track oriented car with "adjustable shocks". AWD is an added plus for me living in the Northeast, and I'm sure its a requirement for many drivers on this Subaru forum.
Nothing like daily driving a little 4 cylinder with a big turbo.. I guess all of those V8 AMG Mercs are horrible daily drivers as well, right? My friend that has let me drive his 302 on numerous occasions actually does daily drive his.

As for living in the Northeast.. yeesh.. I've got an inch of ice covered with a dusting of snow on my front yard right now and my local roads are steep, rough and winding. AWD fanbois who can't fathom snow tires on 2WD cars make me giggle.


Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 04-04-2013 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Completely forgot to reply to SWP in my haste to reply to max pl -derp-
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