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Old 04-05-2013, 02:02 AM   #76
ever12
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I couldn't disagree more. Keep your droopy-butt mini sedans in Germany.. we need more hatches here.

No hate.. but for $47k I'm sure as hell not buying a 4 cylinder turbocharged car. This is America.. I'll take something with some displacement and throttle response.
I just got back from the New York auto show and saw it in person. I think this car looks simply phenomenal. I know looks are subjective, but I just can't wrap my head around how someone could think this car is ugly.

As for the price... At the auto show, I saw an Evo MR with a $44k sticker price. Not only does car feature lower weight and better power numbers than the Evo, but the Evo is hilariously outmatched in terms of amenities and refinement.

The problem is that we complain when auto manufacturers don't build the stuff we want, and then when they do, we **** all over them. That's why so many car companies are reluctant get involved in any sort of niche or enthusiast segment. Our kind is impossible to please.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:22 AM   #77
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The problem is that we complain when auto manufacturers don't build the stuff we want, and then when they do, we **** all over them. That's why so many car companies are reluctant get involved in any sort of niche or enthusiast segment. Our kind is impossible to please.
I don't think the enthusiast segment, as a whole, is hard to please. In fact, despite the decline in popularity of "tuner" cars, as a whole I think there are more (and better) enthusiast offerings available than ever before. So it's obviously paying off for the manufacturers. The problem is more specifically the NASIOC segment who want way too much for less.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #78
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I don't think the enthusiast segment, as a whole, is hard to please. In fact, despite the decline in popularity of "tuner" cars, as a whole I think there are more (and better) enthusiast offerings available than ever before. So it's obviously paying off for the manufacturers. The problem is more specifically the NASIOC segment who want way too much for less.
I don't see how we're a problem. We want to pay for a solid driveline that can be modded beyond stock levels and hold up.. and we want an easily tuned suspension and we don't care what badge is on the hood or how it's styled or how cheap the interior is. NASIOC has one of the strongest motorsports boards I've seen on any brand-specific car forum this side of a Lotus or Porsche board... People who are attracted to performance functionality. I think the problem for this particular enthusiast community are people who are overly concerned with Subaru styling, interior quality and 'stance'. They're generally only here because Subarus are 'bro-cool'.. not because they understand why they're cool. They'll ruin the WRX & STI if Subaru decides to listen to them.

For instance.. I have no interest in a $44k EVO.. never will (until $44k is considered inexpensive after a few more decades of inflation)... so I see spending more money for a poorer spec'd car with a fancy badge on the hood beyond pointless. I'd rather drive a 10 year old miata than a new AMG anything for fun.. and that's why I'm on a Subaru board and not on a yachting forum.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:43 AM   #79
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Air springs in the rear?
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:12 AM   #80
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Air springs in the rear?
perhaps, I don't know.

I just looked for images of the CLA45 AMG drivetrain, and posted the clearest demonstration of the transverse layout.

Frankly, being transverse, automatic only like pretty much all Mercs, and pretty much ~50K$... (and I have never been a fan of CLS/CLA looks... I would much rather go with an Audi A5 Sportback, or A7 Sportback sleek 5-door)

I think Lincoln MKZ, and Buick Regal are better looking than CLA, and are probably less expensive, Ford Fusion certainly is, for Turbo 4, or V6, with automatic, and haldex-style AWD in a sedan.

I am not all that interested in CLA. The engine output is notable, and it's inclusion of AWD to handle it does call attention to how many brands are coming into this market.

Subaru and Audi are not the only big names in AWD cars anymore.

And actually, I am more interested in BMW X4 concept more than CLA, or more than I should really be interested in X4.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #81
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The four-link rear axle of the CLA 45 AMG is also a totally new development. In the course of optimizing the elastokinematics, the strut bearings were modified for maximum driving dynamics and control. The rear axle carrier is fitted with more rigid bearings for increased directional stability; the subframe is rigidly bolted to the body. The AMG sports suspension with specifically tuned spring/damper units and larger stabilizers ensures high lateral acceleration and a reduced rolling tendency in fast S-bends. The CLA 45 AMG comes standard with twin-spoke AMG light-alloy wheels painted titanium gray with a high-sheen finish, fitted with size 235/40 R 18 tires.
http://www.daimler.com/dccom/0-5-715...0-0-0-0-0.html

in german, both the cla 45 amg and the a 45 amg have more or less the same description

Last edited by torquemada; 04-05-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:55 AM   #82
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that's a big downpipe for a stock 4 cyl turbo.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:02 PM   #83
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We want to pay for a solid driveline that can be modded beyond stock levels and hold up.. and we want an easily tuned suspension and we don't care what badge is on the hood or how it's styled or how cheap the interior is.
If that's really all you care about, why buy anything other than 1988 fox bodies for $5k and spend $40k on mods?
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #84
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that's a big downpipe for a stock 4 cyl turbo.
It's a big heat shield... probably to keep from heating up the radiator.

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If that's really all you care about, why buy anything other than 1988 fox bodies for $5k and spend $40k on mods?
Don't start the clapped out heap vs new car with a warranty thing...
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:12 PM   #85
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Don't start the clapped out heap vs new car with a warranty thing...
Why not? If it's all about performance per dollar, a modded fox body makes perfect sense. But if you can see why someone would spend $43,000 on a new 302 when a modded 1989 could match its performance for $25k-30k less, it shouldn't be difficult to figure out why someone may prefer an AMG Mercedes to a Mustang, even if the Mustang has a V8 and more power.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:56 PM   #86
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ok well if you wanna argue...

Boss 302 was $43k starting so $5, not $8k difference which is quite small.

Yes, AWD is AWD regardless of whatever nonsense arguments people make against it being Haldex or whatnot.

Styling is subjective, yes. But if you honestly believe the Mustang has a nicer interior then you're delusional. The CLA can be fitted with carbon fiber trim throughout, so no, its not a plastic tub despite it having plastic elements like any other car under $100k.

And last, this thing is much more a daily driver with its turbo 4 than a V8 track oriented car with "adjustable shocks". AWD is an added plus for me living in the Northeast, and I'm sure its a requirement for many drivers on this Subaru forum.
I spent last week driving a 2013 Boss with only 2k miles on it. I got in the car and said to myself how crappy the interior was. Besides the Recaros the interior was worse than my Impreza. It really sucked. The MB interior looks absolutely stunning. I don't even know how you could compare the two on the inside. This car is amazing, I wish I lived in Europe for a week so I could take it for a spin.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:37 PM   #87
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Why not? If it's all about performance per dollar, a modded fox body makes perfect sense. But if you can see why someone would spend $43,000 on a new 302 when a modded 1989 could match its performance for $25k-30k less, it shouldn't be difficult to figure out why someone may prefer an AMG Mercedes to a Mustang, even if the Mustang has a V8 and more power.
Because then I'd have to point out that you could buy a used S-class for cheaper than the new CLA 45 and things would just get stupider from there.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:27 PM   #88
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At that point, pick up a used AMG _65 and do bolt ons & tune for 1000rwtq. Nicer car, more comfortable, and enough torque to make diesel trucks jealous.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:29 PM   #89
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or.. OR...

You could hire an olympic runner to pull you around in a home made Lazyboy rickshaw
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:58 PM   #90
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I'm up for an argument.. but you've got to put in some effort. This is easily one of the dumbest things I've read on NASIOC. The Merc in question here doesn't even have a center differential... it's the equivalent of ActiveAWD found on Subaru's cheap 4EAT models and now on the CVTs. It's worthless in a performance environment and just good enough to qualify for an AWD badge on the rear bumper. The STI's DCCD will actually defy the car's horrible weight balance under WOT around a track... to say that "AWD is AWD" is just a display of complete ignorance on the subject.

Carbon fiber trim? There are clapped out Honda Civics with APC headlights and carbon fiber trim running around my neighborhood right now.. carbon fiber trim is an expensive cloth soaked in a plastic resin.. it's still ****ing plastic. The Mustang has good materials in the touch points and when you're at the track that's all that matters. I wouldn't expect someone who thinks all AWD systems are created equal to understand where I'm coming from, so lets just agree to disagree.

Nothing like daily driving a little 4 cylinder with a big turbo.. I guess all of those V8 AMG Mercs are horrible daily drivers as well, right? My friend that has let me drive his 302 on numerous occasions actually does daily drive his.

As for living in the Northeast.. yeesh.. I've got an inch of ice covered with a dusting of snow on my front yard right now and my local roads are steep, rough and winding. AWD fanbois who can't fathom snow tires on 2WD cars make me giggle.

RWD and winter tyres VS 4WD and summer tyres on snow - YouTube
i've driven a 13' legacy with all seasons in a foot of snow this winter, and it performed like a champ. if thats the performance i can expect from a car with no center diff. then i've made my earlier point of awd serving its purpose.
i'm not rallying in this **** so it'll satisfy my needs as a daily driver, and i've had the same experience with just about any AWD setup.

you dont see the advantage of using a 4 cylinder as a daily driver over an 8? whats the biggest you can think of? hint: it costs about $4 dollars a gallon right now.

and what is your stupid video supposed to prove? go find one that makes sense like comparing those two cars on the same tire. sure, RWD cars can move on snow tires, but isnt it obvious an AWD one with snows would perform even better?

i mean seriously bro, what sane person thinks a v8 pony car that gets 15/26 mileage with that ugly ass unrefined interior... you're seriously trying to make an argument that a Boss 302 is a better daily driver than this CLA?

COO COO!!!

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I spent last week driving a 2013 Boss with only 2k miles on it. I got in the car and said to myself how crappy the interior was. Besides the Recaros the interior was worse than my Impreza. It really sucked. The MB interior looks absolutely stunning. I don't even know how you could compare the two on the inside. This car is amazing, I wish I lived in Europe for a week so I could take it for a spin.
Totally agree with everything. I'm fairly certain most here agree with this sentiment as well.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:03 PM   #91
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you dont see the advantage of using a 4 cylinder as a daily driver over an 8? whats the biggest you can think of? hint: it costs about $4 dollars a gallon right now.
I got a question about MPG: wouldn't a turbocharged 4 cylinder engine get worse/similar MPG as a V8? Infact I think my friend's S550 is getting better MPG than my WRX.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:25 PM   #92
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all i can say is that the S550 is rated at 15/25, so just about the same as the Boss 302.

maybe you should ask your friend for concrete numbers though as you just said you dont know.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:29 PM   #93
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all i can say is that the S550 is rated at 15/25, so just about the same as the Boss 302.

maybe you should ask your friend for concrete numbers though as you just said you dont know.
I'd say that 15 city/23 highway is about right for my WRX, my question is more about whether a turbo 4 cylinder engine is REALLY more efficient than a V8? His is the 4matic version as well.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:18 PM   #94
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i've driven a 13' legacy with all seasons in a foot of snow this winter, and it performed like a champ. if thats the performance i can expect from a car with no center diff. then i've made my earlier point of awd serving its purpose.
The thing is, most modern cars are very good in the snow thanks to standard stability and traction control. I leave my '10 4Runner in 2WD (RWD) most of the time in the snow and I actually have to turn off all the nannies to have any RWD fun in the snow.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:22 PM   #95
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If you wouldn't buy a M-B because of electronic issues before.. now you have a solid reason to avoid one for mechanical reasons as well.
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Great aesthetics and specs but yeah, I'd be terrified to rag on it for fear of the motor exploding at any given time.
Yeah, because"tooned" 2.0L WRX's with 350hp are blowing up left and right so this one would too This is so stupid I won't even try to explain...


CJ ,your posts in this thread just annoy me so much, you write some really dumb things with such a conviction...I'll point out just a couple..
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Carbon fiber trim? There are clapped out Honda Civics with APC headlights and carbon fiber trim running around my neighborhood right now.. carbon fiber trim is an expensive cloth soaked in a plastic resin.. it's still ****ing plastic. The Mustang has good materials in the touch points and when you're at the track that's all that matters.
How can you compare carbon fiber vinyl wrap or even some butchered CF aftermarket pieces with a factory MB CF?? Most CF is NOT made with plastic resin and even if it was, saying that it is like all other plastics is, again,plain dumb. It's like saying that diamond is the same as quartz because it's still just a mineral! looks the same too lol

I guess you need a car to have the interior made 100% from titanium. Then it wouldn't be a "plastic tub"
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I spent last week driving a 2013 Boss with only 2k miles on it. I got in the car and said to myself how crappy the interior was. Besides the Recaros the interior was worse than my Impreza. It really sucked. The MB interior looks absolutely stunning. I don't even know how you could compare the two on the inside. This car is amazing, I wish I lived in Europe for a week so I could take it for a spin.
BAM, someone who actually knows what he's writing...
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:26 PM   #96
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I don't see how we're a problem. We want to pay for a solid driveline that can be modded beyond stock levels and hold up.. and we want an easily tuned suspension and we don't care what badge is on the hood or how it's styled or how cheap the interior is. NASIOC has one of the strongest motorsports boards I've seen on any brand-specific car forum this side of a Lotus or Porsche board... People who are attracted to performance functionality. I think the problem for this particular enthusiast community are people who are overly concerned with Subaru styling, interior quality and 'stance'. They're generally only here because Subarus are 'bro-cool'.. not because they understand why they're cool. They'll ruin the WRX & STI if Subaru decides to listen to them.

For instance.. I have no interest in a $44k EVO.. never will (until $44k is considered inexpensive after a few more decades of inflation)... so I see spending more money for a poorer spec'd car with a fancy badge on the hood beyond pointless. I'd rather drive a 10 year old miata than a new AMG anything for fun.. and that's why I'm on a Subaru board and not on a yachting forum.
You misunderstand me completely. I'm not discussing this AMG, and I'm not talking about NASIOC as a whole; I'm talking about those idiots this forum often breeds who are totally unrealistic. You know the ones: "The next STI should have 420hp, Recaros, and lose 400lb. But if it costs more than $32K, Subaru should just go out of business!". That's the kind of poisonous bile ever12 is talking about. Enthusiasts as a whole communicate what we want, and the current market offerings as a whole show that manufacturers are listening. There are a *lot* of fantastic performance cars available these days.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:33 PM   #97
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Yeah, because"tooned" 2.0L WRX's with 350hp are blowing up left and right so this one would too This is so stupid I won't even try to explain...


CJ ,your posts in this thread just annoy me so much, you write some really dumb things with such a conviction...I'll point out just a couple..


How can you compare carbon fiber vinyl wrap or even some butchered CF aftermarket pieces with a factory MB CF?? Most CF is NOT made with plastic resin and even if it was, saying that it is like all other plastics is, again,plain dumb. It's like saying that diamond is the same as quartz because it's still just a mineral! looks the same too lol

I guess you need a car to have the interior made 100% from titanium. Then it wouldn't be a "plastic tub"


BAM, someone who actually knows what he's writing...

with reguards to CF.. I find your post comical. So we are talking about interior trim pieces right? Which are neither structural or critical to the function of the car in any way. Most are not even in areas where you touch since those are leather, or in Mercedes land, leatherette unless you pay more. So paying a premium for a material that serves no other purpose than to look pretty while offering ZERO functional what so ever is better than not paying a premium for plastic that LOOKS just like CF or close enough that it does not matter. My VW has real aluminum trim pieces. Had they been plastic it would not have mattered.

If you said CF roof, or CF hood, or monocoque then great, you want the real thing. But other than that it is bling for the sake of bling.

I will say the merc has much nicer interior, but I would totally expect that. IT comes down to expectations. If I were to buy a Boss 302 I would not put too much worry into an impressive interior. However, if I were to buy a mustang GT I would want just that, A GT. If I make the choice to buy a track ready boss 302 then I take it with all the shortcomings as well as advantages.

If I buy a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a lowly VW, I expect to a better interior than say a Subaru, a Toyota, or a Mazda
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:37 PM   #98
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If I buy a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a lowly VW, I expect to a better interior than say a Subaru, a Toyota, or a Mazda
Though giving credit where credit's due, you have to admit that the BRZ/FR-S probably has one of the best interiors south of $30K.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:06 AM   #99
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I'd say that 15 city/23 highway is about right for my WRX, my question is more about whether a turbo 4 cylinder engine is REALLY more efficient than a V8? His is the 4matic version as well.
When driven spiritedly, the average turbo 4 will consume just as much gas as a V8 if the horsepower numbers are equal. A lot of people assume with a turbocharged car you get the best of both worlds in terms of power and efficiency but the very idea of a turbocharger is to force more fuel into an engine to be combusted. The only mpg advantage turbo 4s get is from driving while keeping out of boost. That's how manufacturers can post artificial combinations of high horsepower and mpg ratings thereby appealing to customers and meeting government regulations while the actual ratio of power to mileage is not as representative as it is in a N/A car. (If you actually want to use any of that power.)
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:13 AM   #100
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The only mpg advantage turbo 4s get is from driving while keeping out of boost.
I get the other parts, but regarding the above quoted statement: do turbo 4's even have an MPG advantage out of boost? My boost gauge never goes above 16inHg when in the city, and I still have pretty crappy MPG. I know my ML320's V6 gets better MPG than the WRX in the city as well (18mpg).

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