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Old 04-01-2013, 11:15 PM   #1
2slofouru
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Lightbulb Valve spring lower shimming, when is it necessary?

I am in the process of assembling my heads and measuring and fitting solid buckets. The last issue (hopefully) I need to deal with is spring seat pressure. I have usdm wrx model crower springs (bc0600) in early jdm ej20k dohc heads using ej25d spec supertech valves. I read somewhere that the spring installed height is different between the two and the person that posted that information seems pretty busy lately.

-How do I know if a shim is needed under the spring to regain specified spring seat pressure?

-Is there a way to measure seat pressure while the valves and springs are installed? Homebrew rig possibly or machine shop?

-I've only found one brand of thin spring shims specified for subaru (Tomei), are there any other brands available? I can get the Tomei if shims are needed, just wondering.


Thanks for looking and for any help
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:00 PM   #2
jaxscuby
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spring pressure usually done with the springs out of the heads.

yes the shim goes in under the spring, helps keep the aluminum from
being chewed up by the spring.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:34 PM   #3
2slofouru
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I measured the spring height and it was about 1.65" which is way too high considering the springs are rated at 1.42" to be 60lbs seat pressure. I either have to get different springs / retainers / or both. Looks like I may be selling yet another set of unused parts that were designed for the usdm wrx heads. I really would like to keep the valves since they are already lapped to the heads so the next step will be to find out if I can use some shims that will work with the crower springs. That probably isn't going to happen judging by the very few responses I'm getting to these issues. May have to buy another set of springs and retainers...and spring shims. I'm not sure crower makes a set of springs for the ej25d/ej20k setup.

I do understand the shims go under the springs, my questions were because of my hybrid setup which is using usdm wrx springs and ej25d/ej20k style valves with the older heads. This along with the valve job changed the seat pressure, which I need to retain to prevent float at higher rpm. I read in one thread a single statement that the wrx springs also secure at a lower location on the valve stem which would also increase spring seat pressure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
spring pressure usually done with the springs out of the heads.

yes the shim goes in under the spring, helps keep the aluminum from
being chewed up by the spring.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:01 AM   #4
Power-Division
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You can not measure spring pressure in the head, you need to compress the spring to the install height to get the weight, you can to that if the spring is installed on the valve.

If you can give me your valve tip to the bear aluminum where the spring seat would sit i can run some numbers and see if our spring and retainer kit would work for you.
Also the valve tip to keeper groove.

Thanks,
Travis
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:04 AM   #5
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Look into ez30r exhaust buckets. They are shimless. That's what I used in my 20k heads
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #6
2slofouru
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Funny you mention that because that's what I'm already doing. I've been trying to find a few spares to use as reference to get my lash and order them from Subaru but no one wants to let me touch their buckets.

Someone will probably bust out with a stash of 30-40 of them after I send payment to the dealer for the long wait.


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Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
Look into ez30r exhaust buckets. They are shimless. That's what I used in my 20k heads
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:32 PM   #7
2slofouru
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Thanks for the offer but the heads are at work and I have all springs and valves installed...so that if one day I possibly find the elusive magical ez30r solid exhaust bucket I'll be able to measure my clearances. Not sure I want to change my entire spring and retainer setup though, its kind of difficult selling "used" parts on the forums even if technically they were never ran in an engine. It took months to sell a brand new set of supertech wrx valves that I had only opened a few to find they were the wrong length. I can only imagine how long it would take me to sell the bc0600 spring kit. Let me see if there is a way I could use the lower spacers like in the supertech non turbo spring kit or something similar. Its amazing how limited the aftermarket spring kits are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Power-Division View Post
You can not measure spring pressure in the head, you need to compress the spring to the install height to get the weight, you can to that if the spring is installed on the valve.

If you can give me your valve tip to the bear aluminum where the spring seat would sit i can run some numbers and see if our spring and retainer kit would work for you.
Also the valve tip to keeper groove.

Thanks,
Travis
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:59 PM   #8
2slofouru
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Also the lower supertech retainers, SEAT-TS/SUB-5, look to be a few mm thick. Maybe the -5 means 5mm, I've emailed them hoping for an answer to the dimensions because they aren't listed anywhere. The height difference between where the springs are now (about 1.65") and where they need to be (1.42") is actually about 5.6mm so those supertech locators being designed for the sohc 2.5 engines might be the ticket to bring the spring height down/up where it needs to be.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:16 PM   #9
2slofouru
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-BC said they don't have a spring or locator setup that will work, and referred me to a machine shop in Florida

-GSC power division said they didn't have a spacer that would work, then also said they "could possibly make a set, but the machines are pretty tied up with running other parts."

-Ferrea said people seem to be having fitment issues with their kit for the ej25d, so those are also out

-Supertech was the only company that continued to research until finding a setup that would work. It is their normal TS 1015 spring and wrx retainer setup but with the SUB2 6.4mm locators. Should give 70lbs seat pressure.

Looks like the crower springs and retainers set will be up for sale soon, wasted a bit of time but learned a little more about spring setups in the process.
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