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Old 04-03-2013, 02:05 AM   #1
rymaggi
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Default Car plows like a FWD car

So I was going around on circle on ramp getting onto the freeway. Going at a moderately fast pace and realized some a hole was on the inner land hovering right next to me ( it merges at the bottom ). So I decided to enjoy my awd monster ( so I thought ). I was in third coming onto the on ramp and kept it there pickin up speed as I was going around. By the time I decided to hop on it towards the last bit of the circle I was right in the sweat spot of my vf39 power band. So I got on it pretty good and as the car started to pull I noticed my my apex or my line I was trying to keep started to drift away from me. As I got going faster I turned the wheel further around to try and keep it in the lane and not drift towards the outside, but the car almost felt like my Jetta I had light years ago. It started to almost plow straight forward and I increased the power , instead of feeling like a neutral AWD slight loss of traction and equal distribution of it?

For example. My buddy used to have a straight 5 k20 turbo'd audio cs2000 and when I would rip it around a turn, the nose of the car would stay pointed in the direction we where heading but the car would just push a little further wider. I guess it was just way more natural feeling. Felt way more in control of the car than with this currently instance with my wrx.

I hope that rambling made sense. Kinda hard using the IPhone.

My suspension mods are.

ALK Kit
Roll center kit
22 non adjustable front sway bar on stock endlinks
22 rear sway bar adjustable with white line endlinks
BC BR coil overs dampened to 16F 14R
Stock OEM 17x7 wheels on 215/45/17 Togo proxe 4's

The rear sway bar is also on the hardest setting.

Kinda looking for insight on how I can maybe tweak the suspension to get a more neutral/natural feeling when pushing the tires beyond their traction points around corners.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:19 AM   #2
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alignment and tire pressures help just as much as the hard parts installed.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:23 AM   #3
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What are your alignment numbers? This is very important.
Also how is the car set up? Ride hight, etc.?

Not a fan of BC at all, but they are probably not the problem.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:51 AM   #4
rymaggi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikelok View Post
What are your alignment numbers? This is very important.
Also how is the car set up? Ride hight, etc.?

Not a fan of BC at all, but they are probably not the problem.
Coils are adjustable 1-32 soft/hard dampening.

Fronts are 16
Rears are 14

Right height is 1 finger gap in the rear 1.5/almost 2 in the front. Low, but not by any means slammed. Which, with the RCA Kit, keeps the geometry of the suspension closer to spec when lowered.

Tire pressure is I want to say 40psi? All around.

Alignment wise I'm not totally sure, within OEM spec, I had les Schwab do it, so it's not exactly a "performance" alignment. Do u suggest taking it to someone that does "performance" alignments.

Front sway bar isn't adjustable so it's set the only way it can be.

Rear sway bar is adjustable and is set on full stiff. Farthest hole from the end.

I can look around and see if I still have the paper work from les Schwab to get the exact numbers.

Let me know if I can provide any more information.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:52 AM   #5
rymaggi
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Tires also have a good amount of meat left on them.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:06 AM   #6
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first of all the tires are total garbage

next is the alignment.....id BET that it is garbage....total garbage

and a 17x7 with a 215/45 is WAY not anything performance oriented
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post

Coils are adjustable 1-32 soft/hard dampening.

Fronts are 16
Rears are 14

Right height is 1 finger gap in the rear 1.5/almost 2 in the front. Low, but not by any means slammed. Which, with the RCA Kit, keeps the geometry of the suspension closer to spec when lowered.

Tire pressure is I want to say 40psi? All around.

Alignment wise I'm not totally sure, within OEM spec, I had les Schwab do it, so it's not exactly a "performance" alignment. Do u suggest taking it to someone that does "performance" alignments.

Front sway bar isn't adjustable so it's set the only way it can be.

Rear sway bar is adjustable and is set on full stiff. Farthest hole from the end.

I can look around and see if I still have the paper work from les Schwab to get the exact numbers.

Let me know if I can provide any more information.
Take a steel bar that is 6 feet long and bend it, then take a steel rod that is just 1 foot long. Which one actually flexes?

Hint: The longer one.

Same goes for your sway bar. Mounted at the end, is the softest. Closer to the center line should be harder to bend.

Your alignment is crap, your tires not great, and tire pressure not even tweaked a bit.

Oh and you don't measure ride height by finger gap. You measure fender lip to center of wheel. Who's to say you don't have girly hands, or you are a heffer?
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:17 AM   #8
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Because of their heavy weight forward bias and relatively poor dynamic camber curve, Imprezas act like Front wheel drive cars, particularly under power. Given your current mods, softening the front damper settings will help some as will lowering the tire pressures. You might try something like 36psi front and rear. As stated, Imprezas really benefit from a performance alignment and I'd go for something in the range of -2 camber up front (more is better but will also accelerate tire wear) and -1 in back. 225/45/17 tires would improve your situation in a summer spec. Also, what are your spring rates?
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:55 AM   #9
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OP, as was stated above, the tires are a limiting factor.
The main thing is without a good performance oriented alignment, you are leaving your suspension "unfinished".

Les Schwab (like Sears, Firestone, etc.) is almost always not a good place for a good alignment.

In general, you would probably like your front camber at -2.0 even, with your rears at the stockish -1.5. Then set toe to zero all around.
I'm not sure if you can get that much negative camber with the components you have and if you can't, they should max out the front as much as they can go even from side to side.
If you are not familiar with these numbers, it's time to do research.

Get a good alignment.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:56 AM   #10
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I am on my mobile device so I can't see your car in your profile but our cars lend themselves to understeer. You can't just keep turning through a curve and smash the gas pedal and expect oversteer. Be glad you understeered at almost highway speeds and not oversteered bc would you have been able to countersteer it through the rest of the curve? Not try to say you are a bad driver bc you could be like Rhys Millen I don't know.

I would try to find a big parking lot and mess around in after you get the alignment and everything sorted out. Autox would be a good idea too just to mess around and practice.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:05 AM   #11
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get good tires
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:30 AM   #12
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Thanks everyone for your input and help.

I will max my front camber plates, lower my tire pressure, and look on my local forum for a place or someone that can do a good alignment.

I will measure my ride height in a few, good point about the finger thing lol.

Also, should I re adjust my rear sway bar? And what does everyone suggest I put the dampening on my coil overs at? For some reason I always put the front a little stiffer than the rear.

Guess its time for a new wheel and tire set up. Been eyeing some 17x9 rota dpt's +42. 245/40/17 should fit well with a slight roll.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmochowski View Post
I am on my mobile device so I can't see your car in your profile but our cars lend themselves to understeer. You can't just keep turning through a curve and smash the gas pedal and expect oversteer. Be glad you understeered at almost highway speeds and not oversteered bc would you have been able to countersteer it through the rest of the curve? Not try to say you are a bad driver bc you could be like Rhys Millen I don't know.

I would try to find a big parking lot and mess around in after you get the alignment and everything sorted out. Autox would be a good idea too just to mess around and practice.
I understand. I wasn't carelessly smashing the pedal and just turning the wheel like an idiot. I'm no Mario Andretti, but I'm also not an idiot driver.

I do plan on going to thunder hill for a couple fun training course though. Most likely after my motor refresh, and when I'm in a comfortable spot to replace my glass box transmission that is on borrowed time already.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #14
rymaggi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
Because of their heavy weight forward bias and relatively poor dynamic camber curve, Imprezas act like Front wheel drive cars, particularly under power. Given your current mods, softening the front damper settings will help some as will lowering the tire pressures. You might try something like 36psi front and rear. As stated, Imprezas really benefit from a performance alignment and I'd go for something in the range of -2 camber up front (more is better but will also accelerate tire wear) and -1 in back. 225/45/17 tires would improve your situation in a summer spec. Also, what are your spring rates?
Will do this.

Front is 12k
Rear is 10k

I know it's stiff... If I could do it again I would.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post
Will do this.

Front is 12k
Rear is 10k

I know it's stiff... If I could do it again I would.
Ugh. You may not be able to soften the damping very much due to those high spring rates. You could always swap to some 7K/5K Swift springs and improve the situation a great deal. Not real expensive if you can do the swap yourself.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:11 PM   #16
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Way too stiff for those tires.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:35 PM   #17
rymaggi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post

Ugh. You may not be able to soften the damping very much due to those high spring rates. You could always swap to some 7K/5K Swift springs and improve the situation a great deal. Not real expensive if you can do the swap yourself.
I have been thinking about doing that. I know I can lower the springs 2kish without having the coils re valved? That correct?

Would u keep the higher spring rate up front, equal, or reversed.

I just maxed the camber plates. Will adjust tire pressure on my way to work.

Ride height is
Front 13.75"
Rear 13.5"
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post
I have been thinking about doing that. I know I can lower the springs 2kish without having the coils re valved? That correct?

Would u keep the higher spring rate up front, equal, or reversed.

I just maxed the camber plates. Will adjust tire pressure on my way to work.

Ride height is
Front 13.75"
Rear 13.5"
i would keep the same split or maybe go 8/7 and if you can get the struts re-valved...DO IT

i can not imagine driving 12/10 on the street....and with those crappy tires, they are masking the full harshness of the suspension...you put good tires on and it will be


and didnt anybody warn you that those struts werent street struts and 12/10 was not street spring rates????


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Old 04-03-2013, 01:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post

i would keep the same split or maybe go 8/7 and if you can get the struts re-valved...DO IT

i can not imagine driving 12/10 on the street....and with those crappy tires, they are masking the full harshness of the suspension...you put good tires on and it will be

and didnt anybody warn you that those struts werent street struts and 12/10 was not street spring rates????

Unfortunately not... I know... Bad choice, but it's how you learn I guess. I'll give BC a call after work and see what the re valving would run me with swift springs.

8/7 sounds good. I'll trust your judgment on that.

That is 8F/7R correct.

The lady is gonna kill me lol.

Gonna also start doing some research on tires, since I do already plan on finally getting a "nice"set, I've heard good things about star spec, and with 17x9 +42 I should be able to get a 245 in with a little work.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:23 PM   #20
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Any objections to 8/7K swift springs? Having my finger on the trigger.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:02 PM   #21
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Before calling BC about a revalve, call Feal first. Talk to them about springs too.
I would bet they can work their magic for less than BC AND do a better job too.
Look them up, they do great work.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikelok View Post
Before calling BC about a revalve, call Feal first. Talk to them about springs too.
I would bet they can work their magic for less than BC AND do a better job too.
Look them up, they do great work.
Okay, will do this. I contacted import image on a quote for swifts. Not too too steep.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:45 PM   #23
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More front camber, less rear camber.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:53 PM   #24
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More front camber, less rear camber.
Just maxed the front plates out I believe it's like 2.25. I still have yet to purchase rears.

I took a turn with some good speed on my way to work. Seemed more smooth. And a little more in control than before.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #25
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Theres also driving technique, too. If you're decelerating the car will want to plow.
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