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Old 04-10-2013, 04:45 PM   #1
KillerBMotorsport
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Default The Birth of the Most Powerfull VF Downpipe?

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Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 11-15-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:49 PM   #2
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in for answer
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:55 PM   #3
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Excited even though I don't know what it is.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:04 PM   #4
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Coolant filler tank thingy prototype?
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:17 PM   #5
T-37
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unfinished divorced wastegate downpipe?
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:17 PM   #6
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Tube with a flange. Photo with car wheel centered in pic.

My guess. Brake duct!
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #7
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external wastegate??
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-37 View Post
unfinished divorced wastegate downpipe?
+1
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
Coolant filler tank thingy prototype?
^ Stay tuned on this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmhl10 View Post
external wastegate??
Not quite, but related to EWG

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-37 View Post
unfinished divorced wastegate downpipe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Motorsports View Post
+1
OK you two are the closest. Honestly, I don't know if it would be considered divorced, separated, or just plain old absent. It's a bit niche, but I think there may be demand?

Essentially, it's a non-gated downpipe. There is no accommodation for any kind of waste gate. It's for those running a VF with an EWG venting to atmosphere. That's neat, but not really the 'special' part. The special part is that it's closely port matched to the VFs turbine outlet. Our 'divider' is unlike any other seen before. It nearly meet the turbine casting and expands as you go further from the turbine. The flange also has this same expanding geometry that matches the divider (as well as other funky geometry to match the housing) and on the other side of the flange, an expansion tube that continues (again all at the same expansion angle) up to 3". So basically you have much smoother less turbulent flow exiting the turbine and gradually expanding up to 3". This emulates the exit of most higher performance turbos. Here is a really crappy shot in the dark with a mirror looking into the DownPipe through the turbine housing. You can see the taper outwards and how closely it matches the turbine wheel's exit.



So cool beans, but how else can we keep it from falling into the 'downpipes are all the same' category. Without a 'bell' there's decent room to plumb straight out of the turbine instead of going downward immediately further reducing turbulence. We're also going to be using massive 8" centerline bends to further reduce turbulence and maximize flow capacity. This is very non-standard (not as cheap) as most popular downpipes use a more turbulent 3" or 4" bend radii.

Will all this trickery amount to anything? We shall see.

As usual, you thoughts, opinions, and comments are welcome.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:43 PM   #10
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Off hand, Prodrive used to offer a catted downpipe as part of their power packs. They claimed that with a cat, there was no effect on power output. But still kept it clean...

Their cat was not your normal run of the mill 200cell 3" cat. But more so it was huge like 5"+ in dia. Their downpipe had a really funny shape because of it... I guess logically it sounds valid. Provide enough surface area, and the cell's could do their work without impeding flow?

Do you think you would ever offer something like that? Even as an option? I know in my searching I could never find a cat like that to even have it grafted onto my existing downpipe.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by teiva-boy View Post
Off hand, Prodrive used to offer a catted downpipe as part of their power packs. They claimed that with a cat, there was no effect on power output. But still kept it clean...

Their cat was not your normal run of the mill 200cell 3" cat. But more so it was huge like 5"+ in dia. Their downpipe had a really funny shape because of it... I guess logically it sounds valid. Provide enough surface area, and the cell's could do their work without impeding flow?

Do you think you would ever offer something like that? Even as an option? I know in my searching I could never find a cat like that to even have it grafted onto my existing downpipe.
If you like the Prodrive unit, you should get one.

We'll offer a catted and catless version. I plan on using the same 4" 100 cell cat I'm using on our low mount kit. It's a decent cat, I would say above the middle of the scale in quality/performance. Of course there are $800+ cats out there too if you're chasing down tenths while keeping Kermit happy.

I won't be offering different cats, but if you wanted to put a different version on there I'm sure it could be done.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:50 AM   #12
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I'm guessing that this will be released in tandem with an up pipe variation.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:39 AM   #13
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I'm guessing that this will be released in tandem with an up pipe variation.
I don't see why it can't be used with any up-pipe.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:58 AM   #14
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I don't see why it can't be used with any up-pipe.
I don't see why not either.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:42 AM   #15
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Couple more shots...





The bend that transitions from vertical to horizontal has a 10+" bend radius

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:37 PM   #16
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Just get some products released. I know it takes time but it seems like you have sooo many prototypes and ideas but nothing ever gets produced.

btw love your products.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:39 PM   #17
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I really wanted a flat plate downpipe with I had a stock location EWG setup. This looks like a really nice version of that. If you're port matching to the VF turbo, would you expect it to be restrictive/turbulent with a larger stock location turbo?
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:48 PM   #18
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Just get some products released. I know it takes time but it seems like you have sooo many prototypes and ideas but nothing ever gets produced.

btw love your products.
It all depends on the complexity and level of testing required. Products are researched, marketability is determined. Design, engineering, testing, possibly followed by a second round of the same. Then manufacturing engineering needs to be done; materials costing, fixtures and tooling needs to be designed, packaging requirements, etc. Then on to website and sales stuff, which I avoid like the plague. So something as simple as a shift knob can take a month. A full blown turbo kit, MUCH longer. I will always err on the side of over testing vs bringing something to market that may have compromised reliability/durability

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I really wanted a flat plate downpipe with I had a stock location EWG setup. This looks like a really nice version of that. If you're port matching to the VF turbo, would you expect it to be restrictive/turbulent with a larger stock location turbo?
Thanks! I would expect that with a larger than stock turbo, but the nice thing is, it could always be DIY ported bigger. The 'divider' is substantially thick (machined solid Stainless, not a piece of cut tube) so quite a bit could be removed. For most people removing material is a much easier task than adding it
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:20 AM   #19
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Will this be 304 or 321 SS? I'm about to swap out my Invidia for a Tomei unit but I'm willing to wait for this if it will be made with 321SS.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:06 AM   #20
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Will this be 304 or 321 SS? I'm about to swap out my Invidia for a Tomei unit but I'm willing to wait for this if it will be made with 321SS.
Max temps and the temp differential from end to end is not nearly as high as a set of headers. I see no reason to make a set from 321 unless you wanted to go with a thinner wall to save some weight.

Like all our products it will have a lifetime warranty.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #21
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Nice! What's the estimated release date for this down pipe? And will you have an extra bug on it for those of us that have wideband?
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:38 AM   #22
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Nice! What's the estimated release date for this down pipe? And will you have an extra bug on it for those of us that have wideband?
Too soon to put any dates out there. Yes we will have an extra bung option.

Here's a pic next to the Invidia we will be testing against. Among other things, you can now really see the differences in bend radii.

Just as a refresher, this testing series is targeting those running an EWG VF shooting for maximum power.

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Old 05-07-2013, 04:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Just as a refresher, this testing series is targeting those running an EWG VF shooting for maximum power.
Or the crazy guys (a.k.a restrictor rally guys) who weld the IWG shut and use no boost control at all?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:04 AM   #24
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Of course. You said it well... crazy
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:21 AM   #25
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So here are our testing results.



The dyno room was cooking and the car was heat soaked to the point where it was pulling timing by the end of the pull, which is clearly visible. The DP made 10+ HP/TQ in the midrange and additional power pretty much everywhere else as well. We're going to look into tooling up for this product and run a small batch for independent testing and see where it lands. With a formed tube, and many fewer welds, I don't see how it could perform worse

Special thanks to Carolina Dyno for getting us in on short notice!
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