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Old 04-12-2013, 11:17 PM   #1
masayver
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Default Looking for feedback on this log

I'm posting this log on behalf of a friend. He has an 04 WRX 5-speed and he's basically stage 2 (or 3) with:
AEM CAI
Tactrix EBCS
VF39
STi TMIC
Catless UP
Catless DP
Walbro 255 FP
I believe 3" CBE
93 octane fuel

His injectors are stock 440CC and I guess his ECU thinks they are 415CC (he said the stock map he started with showed 420CC). He is self tuning his car and is looking for something aggressive. The wideband O2 sensor is in the rear O2 sensor location. His IDCs are concerning, to say the least, but any tuners have any comments? Also, no, there isn't a good 3rd gear pull in this log. He did a 2nd gear pull into a 3rd gear so it's possible good feedback won't be possible, so if that's the case, I apologize before-hand and please say the log is incomplete/not usable for constructive feedback. Thanks.

http://www.globaldonimation.com/down...412_170202.csv
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Last edited by masayver; 04-13-2013 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Forgot FP and fuel type
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:55 PM   #2
Airboy
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He needs larger injectors and fuel pump.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:03 AM   #3
masayver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboy View Post
He needs larger injectors and fuel pump.
Sorry, edited first post, he has a Walbro 255 FP. So just injectors? Also, tuned for 93 octane. Thanks for taking a look.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:14 PM   #4
jthatch12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masayver View Post

Sorry, edited first post, he has a Walbro 255 FP. So just injectors? Also, tuned for 93 octane. Thanks for taking a look.
He definitely needs larger injectors, especially with the vf39. I maxed out my stock injectors with a TD04 . I'm now running 660cc injectors , running great :-)
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #5
masayver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthatch12 View Post
He definitely needs larger injectors, especially with the vf39. I maxed out my stock injectors with a TD04 . I'm now running 660cc injectors , running great :-)
What brand injectors are you using?
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:06 PM   #6
quazimoto
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He can easily use OEM Subaru injectors. JDM pinks or 06+ WRX dark blue injectors. They are in the 550-565cc range. And if your friend didn't know he needed bigger injectors he absolutely should not be tuning his car on his own. Also it's free to register at NASIOC.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:10 PM   #7
TurboJunkie85
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AHAHA 131% Injector duty cycle!! How does the injector not catch on fire this is crazy!
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:21 PM   #8
jthatch12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masayver View Post

What brand injectors are you using?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2489582
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:57 PM   #9
masayver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthatch12 View Post
Okay, I remember reading your thread a while back. Good work making lemonade out of lemons.

My friend is pretty dead set on getting 565s as he doesn't aspire to make more than 280-300 whp. I think he was more curious about someone pointing out weird things other than high IDC. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:45 PM   #10
dux10
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Its running kinda rich. He can give the injectors a bit of a break by leaning it out. A vf on a 2 liter at only 17psi can be a mid 11:1 afr depending on ambient temp. 11.2 is definitely safe if he doesn't wanna go 11.4ish.
Also curious as to the timing curve on this car. I didn't see timing logged but I could've overlooked it on my fone.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:38 AM   #11
jebjkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dux10 View Post
... Also curious as to the timing curve on this car. I didn't see timing logged but I could've overlooked it on my fone.
Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
No timing in the log, but you can see with what he did log that there is no timing being pulled. Good thing he is on 93 and not CAL91.



masayver - Why doesn't your friend just post this under his own account?



His IDC shows how much room you really have once you hit "100%". IDC includes latency time, but when the injectors never shut off (anything >100% IDC) there is no latency. Running >100% IDC with AFR still hitting target values is possible because of this. It does not matter if IDC is 100% or 200%, once IDC hits 100% the injectors never shut off.

Now, this guy has pushed it so far that he is not even able to hit target AFR anymore in the higher RPM range. It almost looks like he has tried to run richer in the higher RPM range to try and compensate. Maybe not understanding why his AFR is too lean? Although his AFR is all over the place. It starts OK and then down to ~10, up to ~11, back down to 10, and then he hits 100% IDC and it just gets leaner as RPM's continue up.

He is either unaware of the danger he is putting his engine in or he does not care. He should turn down boost to what ever value keeps IDC <100% until he gets new injectors installed.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:53 AM   #12
Airboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dux10 View Post
Its running kinda rich. He can give the injectors a bit of a break by leaning it out. A vf on a 2 liter at only 17psi can be a mid 11:1 afr depending on ambient temp. 11.2 is definitely safe if he doesn't wanna go 11.4ish.
Also curious as to the timing curve on this car. I didn't see timing logged but I could've overlooked it on my fone.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
Did you see that the wideband is reading 11.8 at the top end, at 130%IDC ?
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:59 AM   #13
jebjkey
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I did not even bother to acknowledge the comments on running rich because they were about as outlandish as the "friends" car's tune is. I am glad to see somebody did though.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:26 AM   #14
dux10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboy View Post
Did you see that the wideband is reading 11.8 at the top end, at 130%IDC ?
Yea. Just looked on my laptop now. lol I was scrolling left/right and inadvertently up/down last night on my fone and mistook that 11.8 area as the throttle plate closed/closing. BUt my original comment stands- up to 5500rpm this car is running very rich: bottoming out the UEGO at 10:1 then coming up slightly to 10.4

The guy wanted other comments besides "hey- you need injectors." My comment was basically "hey- the fueling overall needs some work." lol

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #15
masayver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jebjkey View Post
No timing in the log, but you can see with what he did log that there is no timing being pulled. Good thing he is on 93 and not CAL91.



masayver - Why doesn't your friend just post this under his own account?

I'm not sure why he doesn't post himself. He has an account on here and I've linked him to this thread. He's just lazy when it comes to certain things. He has AUS 650CC injectors ready to go in but he wants 565s instead. He did have the 650s installed before but one of them ended up failing a day later (staying open all the time). He sent it back to AUS and it was replaced but he either doesn't trust them and/or he feels they are bigger than he needs so he's procrastinating on installing them again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dux10 View Post

The guy wanted other comments besides "hey- you need injectors." My comment was basically "hey- the fueling overall needs some work." lol

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
Thanks, this is the kind of feedback my friend was looking for. I've passed along the comments and the link to this thread to my friend and hopefully he'll chime in if he has questions.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:04 AM   #16
BrandonDrums
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For 100 bucks he can send is stock injectors in to witchhunter.com to be modded for higher flows. That's the best option IMO as it would require the least amount of tuning for injector latency and tip-in enrichment and is the least expensive.

I think they end up being around 820cc's after being modded. You can mod them yourself too but they might not match up as well and you'll never know. If you buy another set of OEM stockers and send those in as well witchunter will match the set for you.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:24 AM   #17
dux10
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The modded injectors still require a retune of both latency and tip-in....

Steve @ Pullz-on Tuning
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:09 PM   #18
Paidfor
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^^^A hella retune at that lol

These babies spray like a waterhose after the caps are cut off lol

Nice cheap mod for the bump in flow...530 vs 830 , should be worth the money for the retune considering what your saving on injectors. Although... Witchhunters charged me around $210 i think. Welllll worth it tho, even included flow sheets for each injector.
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:27 PM   #19
dux10
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Witchhunter only woul've charged you that if you wanted 8 injectors back. Gordon has done over a dozen sets for myself and my customers. They're not the best injectors in the world, but they're decent- especially for the money. I have them in my personal car and my dad's car as well.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
^^^A hella retune at that lol

These babies spray like a waterhose after the caps are cut off lol

Nice cheap mod for the bump in flow...530 vs 830 , should be worth the money for the retune considering what your saving on injectors. Although... Witchhunters charged me around $210 i think. Welllll worth it tho, even included flow sheets for each injector.
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Old 09-13-2013, 03:11 PM   #20
Paidfor
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Nope..its was the $210 i mentioned earlier. I had em modded over 3 years ago, still have the invoice and flow sheets.(ranging from816cc to 831cc) They do em for $22 per injector NOW...id imagine the price drop reflects the fact that most folks would just opt to decapp em at home......22 bucks each is worth it JUST for the flow sheet imo.. Actually its worth $210 to me lol seeing as i already paid that lol
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:19 PM   #21
ripman
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It's interesting that 440cc injectors with those mods are so far above 100% duty. In Aus on our pump 98 octane, 440cc generally run the vf series turbos with some headroom up to about 200kw atw around 18-20psi. That engine is hitting 130% IDC around 17psi. Why?
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