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Old 04-14-2013, 02:14 PM   #1
ezil71
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Default Best 'current' turbo options for a 2.0 daily driver

Before anyone flames, yes I have done my research, but I need some more help and input.

If it were still around, I'd get an evo III 16g. From what I've read, the xt isn't as responsive, and the xt-r may be a bit much for my 03 tranny.

An 18g with a 7cm hotside is an option, but I'm not sure how the low end/spool factor would be annoying for a DD.

The 16g is phased out by blouche, and a vf48 may be my best bet for my goals.

My main goal is a fast spooling, smooth powerband up to DD/highway speeds (I don't track or autox). Torque is more of what I'm after.

Ideally I'd go to a 2.5, but I don't have the resources for that right now.

Mod are:

Turboxs TMIC
Turboxs cat’d stealthback
Grimmspeed uppipe
Maddad Whisper Dual tip Axle Back
Cobb SF Short Ram intake
Perrin Pulley
Gimmick Turbo Inlet
Gimmick after MAF hose
Grimmspeed 3 port EBCS
Mishimoto Radiator
Walbro FP

My current map has me at 218whp (which according to my tuner in nasioc terms is about 270whp .

To quote my tuner "one of the strongest td04's he's seen"

1st gear sucks - which I know is mainly the 2.0. 2nd and 3rd gear pull is great, with 4th and 5th dropping off.

When I was in VA on 93 oct, my 1st gear response was much better, but I'm in Oregon with 92 now, so I need something that will account for that.

I had a test map with the kind of response in 1st that I want, but the fuel and turbo were unhappy, largely thanks to the crappy gas. Stock injectors are maxed.

From what I've read perhaps a vf22 or vf34 would fit the bill, but it sounds like the vf48 beats those?


Any input on other mods, or turbo options appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #2
207STi
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If torque is what you're after, and E85 is local, that is your best bet. Vf cars on E85 make gobs of torque in the mid range.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #3
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Sounds like you don't like any of your options have you considered going with a small rotated turbo like the gtx2860? Size wise about a 16g and flow wise about an 18g. Or is rotated out of the question? Bolt on you could go with atp gt28rs bolt on but they are $$$$$ for the power you're looking at... Just a thought
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #4
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Op u need to research turbo spool up again... I highly doubt a vf22spools faster than a 16g or that a 18g with 7^cm is faster spooling than a 16g of any sort or 18g is less aggressive than 16gxtr.

From the sounds of it vf34 or e85 tdo4 with ewg setup should get you where u wanna be.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:14 PM   #5
ezil71
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blouche doesn't sell a regular 16g anymore (at least on their site)

e85 is out , as is external wastegate (too loud) and rotated (too much $).

I'll look at the vf34 more - how would that compare in terms of response to the vf48?

No, I don't assume a 22 spools as fast, but it is the power vs response line I'm trying to find the sweet spot of with the current lines of turbos on a 2.0.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:49 PM   #6
Whoa!ShutItDown
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I have a 16gxt and think its pretty awesome, but I cant help but wonder if a 16gxtr would spool faster. I hit full boost at like 5500, but I think thats a combination of the tune and my 4-1 UEL exhaust manifold
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
blouche doesn't sell a regular 16g anymore (at least on their site)

e85 is out , as is external wastegate (too loud) and rotated (too much $).

I'll look at the vf34 more - how would that compare in terms of response to the vf48?

No, I don't assume a 22 spools as fast, but it is the power vs response line I'm trying to find the sweet spot of with the current lines of turbos on a 2.0.
Vf34 if you can find one and I'd say the same about a 16g. I have a vf43 and love it to death. Makes good power and torque but if I were to do It again I'd get a 16gxtr
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa!ShutItDown View Post
I have a 16gxt and think its pretty awesome, but I cant help but wonder if a 16gxtr would spool faster. I hit full boost at like 5500, but I think thats a combination of the tune and my 4-1 UEL exhaust manifold
Damnnnn 5500 on a 16g? Something is wrong with that tune or u have a leak
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:05 PM   #9
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I wouldn'd count out the ewg just yet. I had mine dumped to atmos. at first, and then decided to just plumb it back into the exhaust for stealthiness sake. You honestly don't hear it at all now, it just sounds like a wrx with headers and exhaust. Makes anything spool quicker though, and will give a turbo better topend.

If you paired an ewg with a vf turbo I think you'd have a pretty stellar DD setup. At least that's what I'm looking to do now anyway.


My $.02
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:09 PM   #10
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If I were to plumb it back, I assume that means a new downpipe, which with my txs stealthback I think would mean a new turboback (unless I'm wrong, the txs pipes aren't quite the stock lengths)?

For those with the xtr - what kind of torque are you seeing at what boost levels?
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:25 PM   #11
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Kinda trq u looking to get?
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:35 PM   #12
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I would guess around 300 max, since I don' want to risk my transmission too much.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:59 PM   #13
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Small 18g or vf48 seems to be your best option a smaller turbo like a vf48 or 16g may be worse for your trans then a 18g because of the quick torque
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa!ShutItDown View Post
I have a 16gxt and think its pretty awesome, but I cant help but wonder if a 16gxtr would spool faster. I hit full boost at like 5500, but I think thats a combination of the tune and my 4-1 UEL exhaust manifold
Full boost at 5500?? Wats thats about
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:40 PM   #15
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I don't have personal experience with these, but I believe the Taiwan company Kamak/Kinugawa make a turbo to EVOIII specs.

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/ki...2-1-1-2-5.aspx

Steamspeed, the vendor here is carrying them.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
1st gear sucks - which I know is mainly the 2.0. 2nd and 3rd gear pull is great, with 4th and 5th dropping off.
Actually 1st gear sucks because 1st gear sucks. It's the trans.

I have a VF39 and really like it for a DD. It has enough power to get out of its own way, good low spool, and I don't have to worry about breaking stuff.

And it was $150.

VF 39, 34, or a 16gxt-r would be my choices. The 16 is a better turbo, but at a much higher cost.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:42 PM   #17
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Vf43 insted of 39...
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:34 AM   #18
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Sorry to jump this thread, I'm planning to do the same option. Check out import image site, they still have the Blouch 16G XTR . I'm still debating between the 16 G XTR and the 18 G XTR plus 7cm turbine or the 8cm? 3 in outlet or sticking to stock size 2.4 in?
Any feedback will be appreciated.

Vinny
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:49 PM   #19
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Looks like only the regular 16g is out of the blouch lineup, the xt and the xtr are still up on their website
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:27 PM   #20
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I have a 16gtxr with ewg. Inlet. Full cat less. PW ic. 92 Oct. I'm running a 17psi map from lance at Cobb and I'm at full boost by 3550. 260ft lbs @ 4300. 280whp @ 6000. I personally think its kinda slow. But its safe. So there is a fine line.

Edit. I have 0 boost taper and by red line this turbo still have breath left. I imagine it would like 20psi tapering to 17 at RL

Last edited by corvallisbattery; 04-15-2013 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
Looks like only the regular 16g is out of the blouch lineup, the xt and the xtr are still up on their website
There are other reputable companies still making the good ol'16g, Big16g, and EVOIII.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:01 PM   #22
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I really enjoyed my small 16g setup. I think if I were to do it again now I'd prolly go with either a 16gxt or a td05 7cm 20g. I like the higher end hp. If you hold out long enough on the classifieds here (or, better yet, on a local forum) you could probably find a 16g variant used for pretty cheap. Mine was 400 bucks years ago.

Otherwise you really can't go wrong with a vf39 for cheap thrills.
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:03 PM   #23
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against everyone's recommendations i'm doing a blouch 19t upgrade PnP, coat etc... i wanted the same out of my car as you do. Good, quick spool, low end power. I don't abuse my car often (rarely taken above 6-6500K) so i'm not worried about the slight fall off of the td04. for me, the upgrade put the power where I drive most often, just something to consider...
you can also get injectors that will handle a 16g if you change your mind down the road.
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrad313 View Post
against everyone's recommendations i'm doing a blouch 19t upgrade PnP, coat etc... i wanted the same out of my car as you do. Good, quick spool, low end power. I don't abuse my car often (rarely taken above 6-6500K) so i'm not worried about the slight fall off of the td04. for me, the upgrade put the power where I drive most often, just something to consider...
you can also get injectors that will handle a 16g if you change your mind down the road.
I upgraded from stage 2 to a 16g on my bugeye oh... 2 weeks ago. Years ago I went stg2 using an OTS map, but as I added more mods and learned a little more about romraider I started tweaking the car myself. Before I swapped I already had a silicone inlet, GS EBCS, etc.

I guess it depends on what you want from the upgrade. When I first started tuning all I wanted was boost as soon as possible. Problem is in most cases that ends up with a pretty crappy driving car. So, I started learning about compressor efficiency, etc. What I ended up with was a good little DD tune: not too much boost down low for getting around town and the interstate with good mpg, but plenty of quick spooling torque in the low to mid range if needed, tapering to redline.

This same methodology was applied to my 16g tune. If I want it, full boost is available by 3500rpm. But, even at partial boost it's flowing more than it's TD04 counterparts. Also, it pulls all the way to redline. I like the car being more "normal" down low, but the power is easily there if you want it-just have to either downshift or wind it out a wee bit more.

I'll put up a couple of plots when I get home, I have a virtual dyno overlay of my stg2 vs my (still in process) 16g tune.
I think you'll be happy with the 19T either way, as it does seem to meet your specific goals which is all that matters. But, I will say don't fear the lag. It's not like you were looking at a 20G. I'm thinking now maybe even the 18G wouldn't have been so bad.
But, either way I'm completely satisfied. I bet you will be too, it looks like you know what to expect.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:20 PM   #25
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I guess part of my confusion over options is understanding what to expect as far as low end and mid range response with a 16g vs a vf43 or a vf48

From everything thing I've read, the 2.0 seems best with a 7cm, although I'm curious to know what a 7cm 18g or 20g would feel like in terms of low end.

Since it is a DD, I'm not looking to go WOT in 5th and expect the kind of seat of the pants pull I have now in 2nd, but I wouldn't mind that ability a bit more in 4th

Of course that 1st gear pull isn't great, but I know what I have now can be improved since I've felt better response in my last tune/test maps.

the curve I have now is pretty dam smoooooth I'll see if I can find my virtual dyno plot to post to give an idea of the feel I'm looking for
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