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Old 04-14-2013, 04:06 PM   #1
lavid2002
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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2005 PSM WRX
18.5lb. 93 oct, DP, UP

Default FXT EJ255 rebuild list

Hey everyone. I am going to rebuild an EJ255. If you could add to the list or give me some direction I would appreciate it.

What brands should I go with for these parts?

The most the car will see is 300WHP, and has 200,000 miles on it now.

Machine work
-Cylinder hone
-Heads / block decked if needed
-Block + heads tanked
-New valve guides
-Valve seats cut
-Valves lapped in
-Polished crank

Parts
-Main + rod bearings
-OEM head gaskets
-ARP head studs (Just in case I am in this engine later I won't have to buy head bolts again)
-New oil pump
-Timing belt component kit
-Oil Seals
-Valves
-Cast pistons or forged pistons? Is there a downside to forged pistons aside from the noise of piston slap and the initial cost? It would be nice to know I could make more power later with the car, although I probably will not.
-Piston rings



Re-use
-Connecting rods (Get them reconditioned.) + new rod bolts
-Block half bolts


Can you guys think of anything I missed here? I was told I will probably have to bore-over the cylinders.


Thanks

-Dave
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Last edited by lavid2002; 04-14-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:59 PM   #2
aboothman
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99L EJ255 6 Speed

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Answer depends on whether you have quality/reputable machine shops in your area, you are used to dealing with them, and how much if this you plan on doing yourself.

My initial recommendation would be to get a shortblock from a reputable builder, have your heads gone through, ad put it together yourself with the new parts you listed.

Rallispec seems to have a solid program for moderate power street blocks. Cosworth pistons, which use an alloy appropriate for your power level and needs, and a good reputation for the power level you are at.

There are many other good builders, so look around if this is the route you want to go.

3500 for a block, 300-800 for heads (mostly depending on whether you need new valves and a valve job), gasket kit (can just buy what you need if buying a shortblock, but it is good for a full refurb), timing belt kit, oil and water pump, and some RTV.

Last edited by aboothman; 04-14-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:25 PM   #3
lavid2002
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3,500 clams for a shortblock is way over my budget. I have two good machine shops within 2 miles of my house. Should I head down there and have a conversation with them about this?
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:48 AM   #4
aboothman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavid2002 View Post
Should I head down there and have a conversation with them about this?
YES. Ask whether they have built Subarus before. Chances are they have, but let them know this is not an N/A car for mom and pop. Politely remind them this 4-banger makes 300+ WHP and has more power per cylinder than any small block V8.

Ask whether they have a torque plate, as these split case aluminum blocks are KNOWN to distort the cylinders when head bolts are torqued down.

Ask whether document and blueprint their builds, plastigauge, or use the "crank spin" method...meaning "if the crank spins, it's fine!!"

Ask if they can keep a consistent Piston to Wall (PTW) tolerance

Ask whether they file fit the rings.

And ask about their assembly area.

No need to be a dick, but as a potential customer, it is well within your right to ask the hard questions. Questions that can save you a **** ton in the long run. A good shop may make you feel silly for asking, but they should respect you for your effort to gain insight into their trade and become an informed consumer.

A couple years ago my machinist asked me whether it was common practice to use torque plates on these EJ engines. I said yes and we had a good discussion about it. Shortly after he made his own, and borrows mine in the event he needs 2. Point is he respected me enough to ask because of these very conversations, and because he wanted to do a good job.

It is pretty cool that the old school V8 machinist around here have gained interest in these little "4-bangers" and truly care about doing good work. The fact that I make what is effectively double the HP of your average small block, and keep it on the ground, has opened some eyes

Last edited by aboothman; 04-15-2013 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:55 AM   #5
lavid2002
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Alright

I'll swing by the shops tomorrow and take some notes and post back here.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:01 AM   #6
aboothman
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Again I want to enphasize that some questions may put them off... It is their JOB to do these things correct, but it is worth mentioning that it is important to you. They do call them job shops after all!!

Good luck!!
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:48 PM   #7
lavid2002
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****

One of the great machine shops closed up. Their machinist is having health issues so they closed 3 weeks ago and sold everything. The other guy is like a back yard machine shop down by the bay. He admitted he hasn't worked on subaru engines much and gave me a number. Meh.

Now I have to find a good shop in southern NJ.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:47 PM   #8
lavid2002
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I sent emails to Precision and EFI Logics. We'll see what they want to build a short block.

Also messaged turbotrix.

Last edited by lavid2002; 04-15-2013 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:17 PM   #9
toph
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I believe EFI only will build motors if they are installing them. Have heard good things about turbo trix. Could always call IAG or Element Tuning.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:41 AM   #10
lavid2002
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I just browsed the forums read terrible things about turbo trix lol! I have a feeling I am going to get really high quotes for this build and I will be mailing out the parts for machine work and assembling this motha' myself. We will see though.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toph View Post
I believe EFI only will build motors if they are installing them. Have heard good things about turbo trix. Could always call IAG or Element Tuning.
Thanks for the mention. EFI, is a great option and it goes without saying that their reputation speaks for it self. I encourage you to discuss options with them. However, if they won't build the engine without installing it, we would love the opportunity to quote this. We are currently building an average of 3 engines a week and about 1 is for customer pick up or ship out. We are happy to do part or all of the work depending on your needs. Feel free to send our sales staff an email and we will be happy to reply with a quote. sales@iagperformance.com
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #12
lavid2002
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Email sent. Waiting on replies

I will hunt for more shops and send more emails tonight.

-Dave
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:24 AM   #13
lavid2002
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A friend who plays the high HP subaru game recommended me this shop
http://www.jacksonautomachine.com/our-services/

They have good prices, and they seemed incredibly knowledgeable over the phone where every other machine shop was like "Oh a subaru? Yeah I know of them" kind of mentality.

IAG was helpful but I feel like they were playing middle man. I am looking for more of a machine shop here than an installer. I am going to build this block myself. I have built a subaru shortblock in the past. It came out with a knock but I know where my mistakes were made.


I am going to get the machine shop to clearance everything and make me a spec sheet then I will just bolt it all up. I am getting excited for this build. I have a month or so to keep doing research. Until then I am completely open to suggestions.


Additonally, after talking with a few shops I have decided I am going to just bore out the block to 100mm. I am already buying new pistons and the block has 190k on it there is nothing to lose except a few greenbacks and so much to gain. Straitening out the cylinders, returning them to round, having an exact uniform dimension, and more displacement = more torque




Thanks everyone!

-Dave
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:07 AM   #14
aboothman
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There is no reason to go directly to 100mm unless your block has major scratches in the cylinder liners. Go 99.75 and your block will have another rebuild in it. The extra displacement is negligible if even measurable.

Over boring doesnt buy you much in the forced displacement 4 banger works...until you go 101mm+ AND stroke it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:18 AM   #15
lavid2002
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I was being a bit sarcastic with the displacement comment lol.

Good point on the boring to 99.75. I am excited to get a solid build plan laid out. I contacted a friend who is very good with engine building. He has built me a block in the past. We are going to assemble the short block together

I will call my machine shop and start assembling a parts list and post it up for review.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:56 AM   #16
rexworx
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keep us posted...
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:23 AM   #17
lavid2002
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Ripped it al apart. I will definitely need the block bored out a bit as cylinder 2 had some pretty deep scoring on the top of the piston skirt and cylinder walls...strange.

Also, these bearings were very work. I am so glad I decided to rebuild the whole engine. I will have some pictures up very soon.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:36 AM   #18
lavid2002
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Going to head over to the machinist tomorrow and see what he suggests.

-Dave
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:24 PM   #19
lavid2002
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Machinist reccomends I just go right to 100mm pistons, he has a torque plate, reccomends all new valve guides as his machine uses the guides to cut the seats.

He says we will see whether I do or don't need new valves when they come out of the head, and that he reccomends resurfacing the block and head for a fresh HG surface.

Also, he is going to recondition the rods with new bolts on them, and he says the crank needs polishing. He will size the rods to the pins and LMK if they need new bushings on the small end.

So the game plan for now is to buy new valve guides, bearings, 100mm pistons, and connecting rod bolts. I'll dissasemble the heads, prep the block and heads by removing all the RTV and take everything down to the shop and drop it off for work.


I will see what he tells me and go from there with respect to the cylinder heads and what not.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:00 AM   #20
aboothman
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Did he say WHY you should go straight to 100mm? Are the cylinders scored?

Sounds like a plan though!!
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:39 AM   #21
lavid2002
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I asked him several times. I made a point to get him to look at the block and the scoring. We talked about going to 99.75 vs 100 and I pointed out how thin the sleeves were on the block. He said that going 10thou over often doesn't remove all the scoring, and that going 20thou over would ensure I had good round cylinders again, and that I would remove all the score marks in cylinder #2. Of everything we talked about, this was the only thing I question him on repeatedly because you guys said to stick with 99.75 if I could I asked this over and over and he kept thinking about it, then suggesting 100mm pistons every time.

The only reason I have to worry is weakening the cylinder liners. Lots of people seem to be boring to 100mm with no issues, so I am not overly converned about it. I am not worried about rebuilding this block again. Should I ever need to tear it down again, I don't mind getting another EJ25 block. Heck I have one sitting on the floor of my garage with a spun bearing right now.

What do you think about the 100mm advice?

Thanks

Also I saw in your other thread you were looking for some head gaskets donated. Want my old ones??

-Dave
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:09 AM   #22
lavid2002
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I was considering going with ARP rod bolts but I don't want to waste money if I don't have to. I can get new OEM rod bolts for $2 a pop locally and save 65 dollars this way. I think I will do this.

Additionally, can someone help me out with bearing options? What is the normal budget for rod + main bearings? I did some research and it looks like king bearings are pretty good. Should I be looking for anything special? I have also seen ACL bearings in a lot of builds.
Hm?
http://www.jegs.com/i/King+Engine+Be...FQef4AodkUIA8w
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:27 AM   #23
lavid2002
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Went with ACL race bearings, and OEM subaru rod bolts. Also ditched the valves in these heads and got some valves from a set of B25 heads with 65k on them for 130 bucks. Dropped them off at the machinist today. Now we play the waiting game 0.o

My struts and springs are in though, lots of other stuff to do for the build I guess...

_Dave
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