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Old 06-07-2013, 10:24 AM   #76
1wrxtra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post

Zinc still looks too high. Take a look at this:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013P...roledgesyn.htm

-Dennis
I must be wrong then. I know it was a Castrol though i remember getting a $5 or $10 off coupon for it. Ill see if I can find the receipt when I get home.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:14 PM   #77
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Coming up on 3,000 miles with PP 5w-30 and the level is still at max level. Good sign I'm guessing? I'll be doing another uoa around 4k miles.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:40 PM   #78
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2013 STi, factory fill for just about 3k miles.




Yes, it sheared down a lot.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #79
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7.9 cSt is pretty thin. My factory fill was 8.2 cSt after 1,300 miles, apparently Subaru hasn't started using a more shear stable factory fill.

2.9 TBN is pretty low for less than half the recommended OCI too. With all that calcium though, I'm guessing this is an overbased oil which will stabilize at a TBN just over 2.0 for many miles.

Thanks for sharing, it's interesting to see another factory fill.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:23 AM   #80
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Too bad the dealer Subaru oil doesn't have that much ZDDP.

-Dennis
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:27 AM   #81
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Yea, and moly...

The question of course is how much is from the oil, and how much is from surface coatings and assembly lube? In the end it doesn't matter the source, but it does argue for leaving the factory fill in as long as practicable to aid break-in. The "change it ASAP" argument just doesn't hold up. A nervous new owner would do themselves well to be satisfied with swapping the factory filter at 1,000 mi and leaving the oil in until at least 5k mi.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #82
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The recommended 1st oil change is at 3000 miles. This is not in the manual but from SOA telling dealers. I couldn't tell you how much of that is based on financial, safety, or scientific reasoning.

Currently running dealer oil, so I'll have another Subaru UOA, (Have free dealer oil for pretty much 150k miles.), but I'll probably switch over to Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30 @ the 6k mark
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:24 PM   #83
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I doubt it's official word from Subaru. The dealer certainly didn't tell my mom to change the oil in her 2013 Legacy at 3,000 miles, and that has the FB25 timing chain motor which is supposedly harder on oil during break-in, and originally did carry a 3,750 mi factory fill OCI recommendation. Subaru explicitly extended the factory fill OCI in the FB25 to 7,500 mi in 2012.

If it's not in the FSM (or an addendum) it's not officially from Subaru, I don't care what the dealer says. I've had my dealer tell me that exchanging the brake fluid every couple of years is not necessary, and that all they do when a customer asks is bleed a little out of the calipers. This same dealer insisted that a 2011 Outback with the EJ25 should be getting 5w20 synthetic oil, which Subaru doesn't recommend for any engine.

With how thin the factory oil is, I can certainly understand wanting to drain it, but you're draining away a bunch of beneficial additives. The question is how long can you stand to own it without doing any sustained hard driving. As long as the oil stays cool, even 7.9 cSt will be fine, and I'll bet by 4,000 mi the oil is actually getting thicker.

Leaving the factory fill in for a full OCI is not as scary as you might think. I'd be much more worried about TBN than wear metals. Go over to BITOG and have a look at the factory fill from my Civic which went 6k mi. Wear metals went up in the second OCI. The assembly lube and surface coatings are there doing good things. We'll see how my mom's FB25 factory fill does with a UOA here in a few months. Now if she'd just drive it a bit more...
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:56 PM   #84
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I agree and share your skepticism, especially when it comes from a dealer, but there are some cases where Subaru REQUIRES you to change @ 3000 miles for first oil change. Specifically, I'm referencing the 3.6l 6 cylinder engines, after this change it follows 7.5k OCI. I'm curious about the justification. The 2.5 NA Forester required a first oil change at 3k miles but was changed in the manual with a revision in 2012.


Would anyone have data (MSDS) about current Idemitsu Subaru 5w-30 oil?

Best I could find is a revision in March 2012, which I don't know is the same as supplied to Subaru.
http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Motor..._20104-059.pdf

CATERHAM from BITOG, has information in his post but conflicts with above.
It is however from a revision in Aug 2011.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2507806&page=3
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:04 PM   #85
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There are many different Idemitsu OEM oils and many different Idemitsu oil formulations. Just because an MSDS says Idemitsu doesn't mean that it's Subaru oil.

-Dennis
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:09 PM   #86
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Just restating what has been said a few times is why not add a quart of redline 5w30 in there in place of one quart of the 5w30 subaru oil or whatever gets used?

Bump the additive level, zddp and moly content... lol

I know I would do it if I had a new subaru car and was under the warranty...
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
I agree and share your skepticism, especially when it comes from a dealer, but there are some cases where Subaru REQUIRES you to change @ 3000 miles for first oil change. Specifically, I'm referencing the 3.6l 6 cylinder engines, after this change it follows 7.5k OCI. I'm curious about the justification. The 2.5 NA Forester required a first oil change at 3k miles but was changed in the manual with a revision in 2012.


Would anyone have data (MSDS) about current Idemitsu Subaru 5w-30 oil?

Best I could find is a revision in March 2012, which I don't know is the same as supplied to Subaru.
http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Motor..._20104-059.pdf

CATERHAM from BITOG, has information in his post but conflicts with above.
It is however from a revision in Aug 2011.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2507806&page=3
The 3.6R is the only engine left with the 3k mi initial oil change. Also the only Subaru engine which still recommends conventional oil. The EJ series have had a 7,500 mi initial OCI for a long time, even on conventional oil.

The best way to get info on the Idemitsu oil is to talk to Subaru or Idemitsu. UOAs seem to indicate it's nothing special.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subi400 View Post
Just restating what has been said a few times is why not add a quart of redline 5w30 in there in place of one quart of the 5w30 subaru oil or whatever gets used?

Bump the additive level, zddp and moly content... lol

I know I would do it if I had a new subaru car and was under the warranty...
Not a bad idea, though I wouldn't use Redline, I'd use RT6 and PU 5w30. They're much more likely to have optimally compatible additive packages. M1 TDT and 5w30 would be a good combo too.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:53 PM   #88
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Last edited by Toombs; 06-26-2013 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Nasioc Attachments Don't Work?
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:17 PM   #89
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:58 PM   #90
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^^^^ looks good!
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:52 PM   #91
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Zinc is too high. Possible lab error or just Blackstone's goofy ZDDP readings.

http://www.penngrade1.com/zinc.aspx

-Dennis
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:03 AM   #92
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I was unable to determine which Castrol the dealership put in for the my first oil change. I guess that UOA will remain a mystery as to exactly which oil it was.

Here's one I just received on my most recent oc. Oil was AMSOIL 5w30 Full Synth Euro Blend. Changed at just under 4000 miles as it was burning some. I drained about 3.5-4L. I remembered to have the sample vial right next to me when I removed the plug. Sampled it correctly this time....

I also did the TBN per Gpshumway's request.



They mention that some of the higher metals could have been due to racing or spirited driving. While I do drive "spiritedly" on occasion, this car is not raced. I mentioned in my other post that I forgot to have the vial with me when I took out the drain plug so I had to take my sample from the drain pan.

Replaced with AMSOIL 5w40 Euro Full Synth Full SAPS. I'm planning on changing this at 5k, and will do another TBN.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=EFMQT-EA
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:44 AM   #93
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Wow. That KV100 is pretty poor, Amsoil Euro starts out at 12.2 cSt - that's 25% shear! Pretty poor performance from such an expensive oil which is recommended for high performance, long drain European applications.

The wear metals look pretty good compared to your last UOA.

TBN of 2.2 shouldn't be scary in this low-SAPS oil, they generally stabilize in the 1.8-2.2 range for many miles.

Prior to this UOA, this would've been my first choice in the Amsoil lineup for most street driven turbo Subaru applications, no longer. It'll be interesting to see how AFM does. Now someone should try AFF 0w40 (4-stroke powersports oil).
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:04 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Wow. That KV100 is pretty poor, Amsoil Euro starts out at 12.2 cSt - that's 25% shear! Pretty poor performance from such an expensive oil which is recommended for high performance, long drain European applications.

The wear metals look pretty good compared to your last UOA.

TBN of 2.2 shouldn't be scary in this low-SAPS oil, they generally stabilize in the 1.8-2.2 range for many miles.

Prior to this UOA, this would've been my first choice in the Amsoil lineup for most street driven turbo Subaru applications, no longer. It'll be interesting to see how AFM does. Now someone should try AFF 0w40 (4-stroke powersports oil).
My co-worker runs the 5w40 in his MS6 which is why I switched to this in the first place. I did initially go with the 5w30, but I figured it would be of similar quality until I noticed how much had burned off... changed it soon after and wasn't really surprised to see the results here. I'm thinking the 5w40 full saps will look much better. That stuff just seemed to be muuuch thicker when I was filling it up. You can look forward to that UOA in approx 1 month lmao. 50+ miles/day to and from work 5 days/week. Love it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #95
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There are some Amsoil Euro 5W-30 uoa's posted at IWSTI and they're not that impressive either. That's why I tell people to go with the old school diesel HDD 5W-30 if you want a manly Amsoil 5W-30 oil. :-)

-Dennis
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
There are some Amsoil Euro 5W-30 uoa's posted at IWSTI and they're not that impressive either. That's why I tell people to go with the old school diesel HDD 5W-30 if you want a manly Amsoil 5W-30 oil. :-)

-Dennis
I never visit IWSTI, got some links? What's the general trend?

The Edge OE UOA posted above came back pretty darn good, and I recall one with M1 ESP that was pretty good too. Maybe Amsoil's formula just isn't up to the standards of the majors in this case.

What's odd is how different this UOA is from the last one 1wrxtra posted.

1wrxtra -
What were the exact conditions of collection from the used oil pan? I would expect some contamination with debris, but I wouldn't expect the KV100 to be affected unless there was other oil already in the pan.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:55 PM   #97
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The uoa's are probably on bitog as well posted by gathermewool. I don't think they sheared as much as the above uoa though.

Ok, I searched for you:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2688135

Of course, my comment about using a lighter oil was in jest (in case anyone is wondering) but check out the uptick in uoa wear metals. Your point about used oil contamination is a good one. That's why I take my samples from the dipstick tube using an oil pump. Then there is always the possibility of lab error.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 06-28-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
I never visit IWSTI, got some links? What's the general trend?

The Edge OE UOA posted above came back pretty darn good, and I recall one with M1 ESP that was pretty good too. Maybe Amsoil's formula just isn't up to the standards of the majors in this case.

What's odd is how different this UOA is from the last one 1wrxtra posted.

1wrxtra -
What were the exact conditions of collection from the used oil pan? I would expect some contamination with debris, but I wouldn't expect the KV100 to be affected unless there was other oil already in the pan.

This most recent sample (the Amsoil 5w30 I posted above in post #92) I took correctly so those results should be correct unless Blackstone fudged something up. The previous test (the second UOA in post #69) was sampled from the pan. It was a new pan though, had never been used before that so it wasn't contaminated from old oil.

Was that what you were looking for or did I misunderstand your question?

Last edited by 1wrxtra; 06-29-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 11:27 AM   #99
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I believe he was wondering if perhaps there was a small amount of a different oil in the sample bottle because the oil sheared so much. I don't think I've ever seen any Euro 5W-30 shear to a 20 grade. The viscosity in the uoa that I linked above is fairly normal, and that was from a Stage I STI with 6,854 miles on the oil.


-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 06-30-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:09 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I believe he was wondering if perhaps there was a small amount of a different oil in the sample bottle because the oil sheared so much. I don't think I've ever seen any Euro 5W-30 shear to a 20 grade. The viscosity in the uoa that I linked above is fairly normal, and that was from a Stage I STI with 6,854 miles on the oil.


-Dennis
The sample bottle was clean, BS sends fresh ones for each sample. None of the oil I've sent in was mixed with other oils. It's possible that due to my poor sampling of the second UOA posted in post #69 the readings were off, but the most recent sample I took was done correctly and not mixed with anything.
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