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Old 07-17-2013, 08:17 PM   #126
RavensFan7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

I would suspect it's not actually gear oil, though it's possible it sheared that much. The gear oil from my dad's Allroad came back at 9.92 cSt after 145k mi.

Many MTLs these days are just liquid delivery systems for anti-wear and friction modifier additives, and are really thin. OEM lubes from VW, Honda, GM and Ford are all like this. The commercial version of the GM fluid is Pennzoil Syncromesh. I'd bet the dealer used a MTL rather than gear oil because they didn't understand (or didn't care about) the unique requirements of a Subaru AWD gearbox.
Well, ALL that dealer sold was Subaru's so he should have know better.

I personally drained that oil, and believe me, it was gear oil or something similar. You don't forget the first time you smell that **** and get it on your hands lol.
Maybe gear and motor oil mixed....who knows.
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Last edited by RavensFan7; 07-17-2013 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:21 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

I would suspect it's not actually gear oil, though it's possible it sheared that much. The gear oil from my dad's Allroad came back at 9.92 cSt after 145k mi.

Many MTLs these days are just liquid delivery systems for anti-wear and friction modifier additives, and are really thin. OEM lubes from VW, Honda, GM and Ford are all like this. The commercial version of the GM fluid is Pennzoil Syncromesh. I'd bet the dealer used a MTL rather than gear oil because they didn't understand (or didn't care about) the unique requirements of a Subaru AWD gearbox.
Would an MTL have zinc that low though? I thought AW levels were only 30-40% lower in MTL's than GL-5's. That looks like the junk that PQIA would issue an advisory on.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

He probably would have better off with any 5W-20 engine oil in the tranny.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 07-18-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #128
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Would an MTL have zinc that low though? I thought AW levels were only 30-40% lower in MTL's than GL-5's. That looks like the junk that PQIA would issue an advisory on.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

He probably would have better off with any 5W-20 engine oil in the tranny.

-Dennis
I dunno. The EP additives in MTL and gear oil are not necessarily zinc compounds. Sulfur is what gives them that acrid smell.

Honda may very well agree with you. The OM for my Civic says if you can't find Honda MTL, use 10w30!
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #129
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This is my UOA in my 2013 wrx after 8000 Miles on the motor after its first oil change. The dealer replaced factory fill at 39xxmiles with subaru full synthetic (or so I think they did lol). I replaced the oil to get this sample to Blackstone at 79xx with Pennzoil ultra.

Enjoy.

Link and image below

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Cq...it?usp=sharing



Here is the thread I made for it: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2530257
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:55 PM   #130
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Link to my 1st UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=21

Here's my 2nd UOA at 7500 miles on the car, 3500 give or take on the Subaru 5w30 synthetic.



The Subaru stuff is looking pretty decent. Holding viscosity at least.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:23 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by kabz View Post
Link to my 1st UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=21

Here's my 2nd UOA at 7500 miles on the car, 3500 give or take on the Subaru 5w30 synthetic.

*PICTURE*


The Subaru stuff is looking pretty decent. Holding viscosity at least.
Yea, it's not too bad. Did you monitor your dipstick levels for this interval? I'm currently on the same oil and burned about 1/2 a quart in 3k miles. Certainly it dropped in 1k-2k mileage,has been steady 2k~+ ... but I haven't really driven too hard on the oil in 2k-3k range.

I'm curious on how you've driven your car as I think it has result on the oil. I'll replacing my oil soonish in about 500 miles, so we compare nearly same interval mileage.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #132
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Yea, it's not too bad. Did you monitor your dipstick levels for this interval? I'm currently on the same oil and burned about 1/2 a quart in 3k miles. Certainly it dropped in 1k-2k mileage,has been steady 2k~+ ... but I haven't really driven too hard on the oil in 2k-3k range.

I'm curious on how you've driven your car as I think it has result on the oil. I'll replacing my oil soonish in about 500 miles, so we compare nearly same interval mileage.
I like to nail it up on-ramps, but mostly 65-75 commuting in the morning (ambient about 80F) and 30 - 50 mph in the evenings (ambient about 100F). Keep revs under 3000 til fully warmed up. 60 miles a day, with some little local runs. Wear metals look a bit less than some comparable UOAs.

On this last oil fill, and on the current one, the levels when hot dropped pretty quick to about 4mm below the full dot (F) and stayed there, no apparent usage for most of the OCI. It used some oil on the factory fill and was topped up a little.

The viscosity looked a bit thin when hot as the oil comes off the dipstick like water, but the UOA looks good. I check all the fluids hot when I fill up, and I had to top up about a teacup of coolant about 3500 miles, but nothing since then.

I'm happy with this. The Subaru synthetic looks good for light duty.

Last edited by kabz; 07-24-2013 at 09:50 PM. Reason: added coolant note
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:43 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by kabz View Post
Link to my 1st UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=21

Here's my 2nd UOA at 7500 miles on the car, 3500 give or take on the Subaru 5w30 synthetic.

The Subaru stuff is looking pretty decent. Holding viscosity at least.
You car is breaking in pretty quickly compared to some. Your viscosity probably held up because of the residual factory moly.

-Dennis
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:07 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by kabz View Post
I like to nail it up on-ramps, but mostly 65-75 commuting in the morning (ambient about 80F) and 30 - 50 mph in the evenings (ambient about 100F). Keep revs under 3000 til fully warmed up. 60 miles a day, with some little local runs. Wear metals look a bit less than some comparable UOAs.

On this last oil fill, and on the current one, the levels when hot dropped pretty quick to about 4mm below the full dot (F) and stayed there, no apparent usage for most of the OCI. It used some oil on the factory fill and was topped up a little.

The viscosity looked a bit thin when hot as the oil comes off the dipstick like water, but the UOA looks good. I check all the fluids hot when I fill up, and I had to top up about a teacup of coolant about 3500 miles, but nothing since then.

I'm happy with this. The Subaru synthetic looks good for light duty.
Interesting that you observed consumption early in the OCI, and then none, most of the time it's the opposite, no consumption for most of the OCI, then a sudden increase.

I agree, the last couple of UOAs on the Subaru 5w30 look pretty good from a viscosity perspective, the TBN still looks weak however. It's possible that the oil is an "overbased" lube which stabilizes at TBN of ~2.0 for a long time, but someone is going to have to be the 7,500 mile guinea pig to inform the rest of us.

Now if only we had some confidence which product is in a given bottle. I suspect the best Subaru 5w30 UOAs are with the API SN/ILSAC GF-5 variety of the oil. Unfortunately, Subaru has a habit of shipping GF-5 oil in bottles labeled GF-4, so it's hard to tell by the bottle if you have the new, better stuff or old stock of the inferior GF-4 stuff. It's likely that the old stock is gone by now though, so not much to worry about.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #135
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Interesting.... So you commute in traffic? Or constant 60-75mph.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:47 PM   #136
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Interesting.... So you commute in traffic? Or constant 60-75mph.
Traffic is fast in the morning! And slow in the evening.

And my mileage has trended up over the break-in (0 - 8000 miles so far):

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Old 08-21-2013, 01:29 PM   #137
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First oil change on a 2013 WRX. Seems to have sheared pretty significantly in <3k miles.



First oil change was free at dealer... they looked at me pretty strangely when i asked for them to catch a sample of the used oil

As you can tell, i don't drive much (4.1 mile commute to work each way; i got the car in January, so ~400 miles/month). I plan to change my own oil from now on, with the next change being in ~6 months (probably ~2500 miles later). I'm leaning toward using a gallon of the OEM Subaru 5W-30 syn, then topped off (0.5 - 0.8 quarts i hear) with Rotella T6. I want to keep that warranty in tact... Seem reasonable?

Last edited by psupunk; 08-21-2013 at 01:34 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:57 PM   #138
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As you can tell, i don't drive much (4.1 mile commute to work each way; i got the car in January, so ~400 miles/month).

I plan to change my own oil from now on, with the next change being in ~6 months (probably ~2500 miles later). I'm leaning toward using a gallon of the OEM Subaru 5W-30 syn, then topped off (0.5 - 0.8 quarts i hear) with Rotella T6. I want to keep that warranty in tact... Seem reasonable?
Not bashing:

With that daily commute, you're probably not even getting the coolant up to temp, never mind the oil. You need that heat to boil off moisture, else it's staying in your engine . Also, research new car engine break-in; you are on track for the weakest break-in in history.

Warranty? So, you'll either show them the SOA oil receipt that is for 4 qts. (looks like you under-filled each OCI; unless you are buying like 34 quart bottles at a time) or the SOA + RT6 receipt, and then it looks like you used unapproved oil. Adios power train warranty. If your gonna blow your warranty, might as well use straight RT6...

Do more reading, there are better oils that meet your warranty needs...or buy "appropriate" oils, copy the receipt in case of future claims, return piss-water and buy better "unapproved" oil. Any oil that goes from 30 to 20 weight in only ~2500 miles is NOT the right oil for you. Less than a quart of RT6 is not going to save yer butt.

It's not too late - do more research. GL bro.

Last edited by oaklandish_WRX; 08-21-2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: moar
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:44 PM   #139
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IIRC, the Subaru oil starts with a viscosity of around 10.5/10.6 cst's at 100C so the oil sheared very little.

oaklandish, even though it doesn't exist the manual allows conventional 5W-40 for replenishment. I would say it's fine to top off with RT6.

-Dennis
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:16 PM   #140
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Thanks guys. I have been somewhat concerned that my short commute may be bad for the car, but note that my work commute accounts for less than half my mileage, so there are plenty of other trips that are longer. Also, those 4 miles take ~12 min in the morning and ~15 in the evening, so it's not super short. Also also, there was no water in my oil, so it must be doing fairly well at boiling it off.

I think i'll keep doing UOAs, and if something raises a red flag, i may try to make sure i throw a nice long jaunt through some fun roads once a week into the schedule
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:25 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
IIRC, the Subaru oil starts with a viscosity of around 10.5/10.6 cst's at 100C so the oil sheared very little.

oaklandish, even though it doesn't exist the manual allows conventional 5W-40 for replenishment. I would say it's fine to top off with RT6.

-Dennis
First, lots of respect to you and others here and at BITOG.

A quick read thru earlier posts in this thread had other, also well respected, folks worrying about a 25% rate of shear for an oil. This FF, tho heavy on moly as others have seem to have found, sheared ~30% to a 20W in well less than the recommended OCI. Will that change as the eng breaks in?

thanks!
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:51 PM   #142
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First oil change on a 2013 WRX. Seems to have sheared pretty significantly in <3k miles.

*snip image*

First oil change was free at dealer... they looked at me pretty strangely when i asked for them to catch a sample of the used oil

As you can tell, i don't drive much (4.1 mile commute to work each way; i got the car in January, so ~400 miles/month). I plan to change my own oil from now on, with the next change being in ~6 months (probably ~2500 miles later). I'm leaning toward using a gallon of the OEM Subaru 5W-30 syn, then topped off (0.5 - 0.8 quarts i hear) with Rotella T6. I want to keep that warranty in tact... Seem reasonable?
How did you prepare your sample?
Like I mean, did you get the car up to operating temp when you reached the dealership when the sample was taken, or was it another short trip?

I suppose even if it was a short trip sample, it would be more accurate to your driving.

GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:49 PM   #143
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GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
According to the lab report that *was* his FF. 2871 on oil, 2871 on unit.

Or, are you saying that the GF-5 5w-30 will be better than the FF he posted the UOA on? Me dense this time of dey...
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:15 PM   #144
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According to the lab report that *was* his FF. 2871 on oil, 2871 on unit.

Or, are you saying that the GF-5 5w-30 will be better than the FF he posted the UOA on? Me dense this time of dey...
In terms of the viscosity, I'd say yes.
Check out post #129 and #130 in this thread.
Both are Subaru 5w30, and maintained that viscosity.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #145
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GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
Where's a voa? I can't find one.

-Dennis
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:25 AM   #146
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Where's a voa? I can't find one.

-Dennis
MSDS in the thread #88
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:13 PM   #147
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How did you prepare your sample?
Like I mean, did you get the car up to operating temp when you reached the dealership when the sample was taken, or was it another short trip?

I suppose even if it was a short trip sample, it would be more accurate to your driving.

GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
Well, it's a good 30 min drive from work to the dealership, and they took my car right in when i got there. I don't know if they took the sample in the middle of the stream, or right at the beginning or end, though.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #148
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In terms of the viscosity, I'd say yes.
Check out post #129 and #130 in this thread.
Both are Subaru 5w30, and maintained that viscosity.
Agreed. US Stealership 5W30 holds up; FF 5W30 does not.

thanks...
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:06 PM   #149
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MSDS in the thread #88
Thanks. Didn't realize there was a pdf at the bottom of that thread and it was too annoying trying to read the jpeg's on my phone.

Did you get that from ILA?

Oh noes! I thought the Subaru oil was "synthetic".

The petroleum base oils contained in this product have been highly refined by a variety of processes including solvent extraction, hydrotreating, and dewaxing to remove aromatics and improve performance characteristics.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 08-22-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:41 PM   #150
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Thanks. Didn't realize there was a pdf at the bottom of that thread and it was too annoying trying to read the jpeg's on my phone.

Did you get that from ILA?

Oh noes! I thought the Subaru oil was "synthetic".

The petroleum base oils contained in this product have been highly refined by a variety of processes including solvent extraction, hydrotreating, and dewaxing to remove aromatics and improve performance characteristics.

-Dennis
Yessir, got it from Susie, MSDS Coordinator of ILAC
I asked specifically for Subaru Synthetic Motor Oil SAE 5W-30
She gave me the 55 gallon lube version... maybe she's trying to hint at something...
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