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Old 04-30-2013, 08:33 PM   #51
Mr. Lin
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Prepare yourself!!!! You ringland is going to fail at 924 miles!!!
don't say that! I just passed like 1422 miles
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:21 AM   #52
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If you want a reliable car go with Honda and toyota, they WILL last 200k+ with little to no maintenance...Subaru will last that long with high maintenance schedules...
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:14 AM   #53
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The people who are saying its not common are just trying to justify there purchase. Don't get me wrong, its the funnest car I have ever owned and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But..... the engines are junk. They are poorly designed heaps of junk. And the fact there have been ring land failures reported since 2005 disturbs me. Buying an STI/WRX is a crap shoot. New or used. There are threads dedicated to ring land and bearing failures, filled with people reporting them. It is very much common. Some guys and beat the living piss out of their engines and never have a problem, other engines may never see above 3k and blow up multiple times. Its an awesome car, but every time I get into the throttle I am just waiting for something to break, and It definitely should not be that way.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:28 AM   #54
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(On stock parts) - don't idle to warm up or try not to idle period.....
Can someone clarify on this? Is it not recommended to warm up engine in driveway prior to use?
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:14 AM   #55
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The people who are saying its not common are just trying to justify there purchase. Don't get me wrong, its the funnest car I have ever owned and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But..... the engines are junk. They are poorly designed heaps of junk. And the fact there have been ring land failures reported since 2005 disturbs me. Buying an STI/WRX is a crap shoot. New or used. There are threads dedicated to ring land and bearing failures, filled with people reporting them. It is very much common. Some guys and beat the living piss out of their engines and never have a problem, other engines may never see above 3k and blow up multiple times. Its an awesome car, but every time I get into the throttle I am just waiting for something to break, and It definitely should not be that way.
Show me the percentage of people with ringland/bearing failures compared to those who haven't experienced those or other failures.

You can't. Your argument is over before it even begins because you have no proof to back it up. Common problem? Show me how.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:16 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Gallo2011 View Post

Show me the percentage of people with ringland/bearing failures compared to those who haven't experienced those or other failures.

You can't. Your argument is over before it even begins because you have no proof to back it up. Common problem? Show me how.
I personally know three people with rebuilt engines due to ringland. All local. One was a 2012 sti with less than 10k miles
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:21 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by allfours View Post
The people who are saying its not common are just trying to justify there purchase. Don't get me wrong, its the funnest car I have ever owned and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But..... the engines are junk. They are poorly designed heaps of junk. And the fact there have been ring land failures reported since 2005 disturbs me. Buying an STI/WRX is a crap shoot. New or used. There are threads dedicated to ring land and bearing failures, filled with people reporting them. It is very much common. Some guys and beat the living piss out of their engines and never have a problem, other engines may never see above 3k and blow up multiple times. Its an awesome car, but every time I get into the throttle I am just waiting for something to break, and It definitely should not be that way.
Again, it really comes down to sample. Everyone who encounters a problem is going to complain. The people who don't encounter these issues don't talk about how their car is functioning normally.

In general, people typically have more to say about bad things than good things. Look at the news, reviews, and these threads dedicated to ring land and bearing failures.

What's the actually percentage of this being a persistent issue on all WRX/STi's that are currently on the road today? Just because a handful of people on the internet complain about a similar issue since 2005 doesn't make it design flaw everyone should expect to encounter.

I see the same stuff said about LiPo batteries in EV forums. We have those people who've had vehicle fires, burned down their garages, and even homes. Opinions form over the years that LiPos cause fires. However, the vast majority of RC and EV users still use that battery tech. So long as you use it within the parameters that it's intended to operate, you "shouldn't" have any issues. Beat down on it and treat it like crap, then you're likely to encounter one of those "common" issues.

If you play with knives often, you're likely to get cut. Likewise, if you play with high revs often, you're likely to harm your car.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:25 AM   #58
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I personally know three people with rebuilt engines due to ringland. All local. One was a 2012 sti with less than 10k miles
I know one myself. That's 4 people we know. How many WRXs and STIs has Subaru sold since 2008? I don't know, but I'll bet its significantly more than 4. I'll venture to say it's thousands. Are there thousands of people claiming ringland/bearing engine failures? I don't know. Show me how many compared to how many that aren't.

See my point? We have no figures to show these are common failures. If someone can show me proof 10% of all 2008-2013 WRXs/STIs have engines fail, I'll eat my words. Until we can show without a shadow of doubt ringland/bearing failures are common, we should stop using that term. Do ringlands/bearings fail in these engines? Of course! Commonly? Nothing tells me so.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:30 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by SW21MR2 View Post

In general, people typically have more to say about bad things than good things. Look at the news, reviews, and these threads dedicated to ring land and bearing failures.
Well said.

We don't call what the news channels report "The highlights of the tragedies" for nothing.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:41 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Gallo2011 View Post

I know one myself. That's 4 people we know. How many WRXs and STIs has Subaru sold since 2008? I don't know, but I'll bet its significantly more than 4. I'll venture to say it's thousands. Are there thousands of people claiming ringland/bearing engine failures? I don't know. Show me how many compared to how many that aren't.

See my point? We have no figures to show these are common failures. If someone can show me proof 10% of all 2008-2013 WRXs/STIs have engines fail, I'll eat my words. Until we can show without a shadow of doubt ringland/bearing failures are common, we should stop using that term. Do ringlands/bearings fail in these engines? Of course! Commonly? Nothing tells me so.
The only people that know the percentage is SoA. I work in a manufacturing plant where we track our warranty work vs. truck output very carefully. Cutting down on warranty work is a simple way to improve your bottom line and is a huge cost savings. You bet your ass Subaru is tracking these. At ~$5k for a short block replacement **** isn't cheap.

So if anyone here works for SoA and is willing to share this metric, we would all appreciate it. In the mean time Subaru has deemed it cheaper to warranty everything case by case rather than update the 08+ or worse, do a recall. I don't even doubt that full long block replacements on case by case are a hell of a lot cheaper than recall work.

It's the corporate bean counters that have the power to fix this. It is well out of engineering's hands now. All we can hope is the engineers did their homework on the new 2.0 direct injection engine. So far is seems first gen BRZ/FRS aren't having too many problems.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:48 AM   #61
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Show me the percentage of people with ringland/bearing failures compared to those who haven't experienced those or other failures.

You can't. Your argument is over before it even begins because you have no proof to back it up. Common problem? Show me how.
Can you prove that it's a low percentage of failure? No you can't so your argument is weak as well. What's going on here is no different than when I owned my Mustang where owners on Mustang forums were complaining that the MT82 (2011+ mustangs) was a junk transmission and there were numerous reports of failures, grinding gears, gear whine, etc by owners on the site that would degernate into pissing matches with Ford fanboys that believe Ford can do no wrong. Ford loyalists would say the same crap like "you don't know the numbers", "it's a very small percentage", etc but that wasn't the case as there were enough issues that the NHTSA got involved when people were getting locked out of gears on high speed freeways.

Nobody knows how many of these engines have failed except Subaru but given the information from owners on the internet we can fairly assume that there is a problem. 5%, 10%, 15% greater or less nobody can say but we do know there is a problem and it's real as lots of owners can attest.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:56 AM   #62
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Can someone clarify on this? Is it not recommended to warm up engine in driveway prior to use?
In the summer you really don't need to warm up your car for more than 30 seconds to 1 minute. In the winter maybe 1 or 2 minutes. Anything more than that is simply a waste of gas as the engine gets warmer much faster by driving. Just don't be one of those dolts that goes from his driveway to redline on the street as you want to wait until you engine is up to regular operating temperature before running it hard. Idling isn't going to wreck your engine but it's just a waste of fuel and it does contribute some wear and tear having your engine running for no reason.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:16 PM   #63
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Can you prove that it's a low percentage of failure? No you can't so your argument is weak as well. What's going on here is no different than when I owned my Mustang where owners on Mustang forums were complaining that the MT82 (2011+ mustangs) was a junk transmission and there were numerous reports of failures, grinding gears, gear whine, etc by owners on the site that would degernate into pissing matches with Ford fanboys that believe Ford can do no wrong. Ford loyalists would say the same crap like "you don't know the numbers", "it's a very small percentage", etc but that wasn't the case as there were enough issues that the NHTSA got involved when people were getting locked out of gears on high speed freeways.

Nobody knows how many of these engines have failed except Subaru but given the information from owners on the internet we can fairly assume that there is a problem. 5%, 10%, 15% greater or less nobody can say but we do know there is a problem and it's real as lots of owners can attest.
No, I can't prove it's a low percentage of failure. Then again, I'm not the one claiming its a common problem. I'm not claiming anything until I see percentages of failure versus non-failure.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:20 PM   #64
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No, I can't prove it's a low percentage of failure. Then again, I'm not the one claiming its a common problem. I'm not claiming anything until I see percentages of failure versus non-failure.
That's the thing, it should not be a problem at all. How long have the ej engines been being made? These engines should not have massive failures. This had been a problem for way to long. I will not recommend a vehicle to someone that has a good chance of popping the engine.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:35 PM   #65
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That's the thing, it should not be a problem at all. How long have the ej engines been being made? These engines should not have massive failures. This had been a problem for way to long. I will not recommend a vehicle to someone that has a good chance of popping the engine.
Again, what do you mean by, "massive failures"? We throw these scary words around like they mean something and all the newbies crap their pants and spread misinformation to other newbies.

What do you mean by "good chance"? What percentage of total EJ engines produced will experience a "good chance" of failure?
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:38 PM   #66
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No, I can't prove it's a low percentage of failure. Then again, I'm not the one claiming its a common problem. I'm not claiming anything until I see percentages of failure versus non-failure.
Well I'm claiming its a problem. We know it exists and we also know it can happen to stock or modified cars. We can't say to any prospective buyer that it won't happen to them because it happens. The chances of it happening are up for debate but it's fact that the issue exists.

I go back to my original post in this thread as the proper advice for any prospective owner to do their own research and make their own decision. Threads like this simply aren't educational as it degenerates to pro-Subaru posters arguing with people that believe or claim there are issues. The information is available at iwsti.com and other sites and its the responsibility of the buyer to do their due dilligence.

Last edited by heavyD; 05-01-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #67
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Again, what do you mean by, "massive failures"? We throw these scary words around like they mean something and all the newbies crap their pants and spread misinformation to other newbies.
I would consider a ring land failure to be "massive." I think that's what he meant.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:48 PM   #68
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I would consider a ring land failure to be "massive." I think that's what he meant.
That's exactly what I meant. Ringland and bearing failures are massive engine failures. A stock engine should not spin bearings and crack ringlands.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #69
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Well I'm claiming its a problem. We know it exists and we also know it can happen to stock or modified cars. We can't say to any prospective buyer that it won't happen to them because it happens. The chances of it happening are up for debate but it's fact that the issue exists.

I go back to my original post in this thread as the proper advice for any prospective owner to do their own research and make their own decision. Threads like this simply aren't educational as it degenerates to pro-Subaru posters arguing with people that believe or claim there are issues. The information is available at iwsti.com and other sites and its the responsibility of the buyer to do their due dilligence.
At least you removed "common" from your post. It is a problem, agreed. To what extent it's a problem has yet to be determined here.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:03 PM   #70
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That's exactly what I meant. Ringland and bearing failures are massive engine failures. A stock engine should not spin bearings and crack ringlands.
I agree 100%. A ringland or bearing failure is a massive failure because it affects the entire rotating assembly in a large number of cases. I wasn't sure you were using massive to mean highly destructive, so you're correct.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:37 PM   #71
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If it were me, I'd never consider buying a used WRX, especially an STI for many of the reasons listed. Secondly, the resale on these cars is nutty.

If you must buy a used STI, then I'd make sure of the following:

1) Compression and leakdown test to confirm the ringlands aren't wrecked.

2) Full documented maintenace history, especially oil changes on or before required change intervals. Also make sure the correct oil was used.

3) Never buy one with mods. Never.

4) Inspect the heat shield and downpipe bolts for indications that they've been removed. That could be an indication that car did have at least Stage II mods.

STIs seem to be FAR more prone to the ringland issue. You don't hear about it much at all on WRXs until guys start pushing 350whp. With the STIs, it can happen stock, Stage I, and beyond. I believe the culprit is the different pistions used, a possible fueling problem, and more aggressive timing on the tune. The STI requires 91 octane, but 93 is preferred. The WRX requires 91, but can run on 87.

Spun bearings are more related to guys not monitoring oil levels. Do high G driving on a boxer motor that's 30%+ down on oil can result in a fairly bad outcome.

For the money of a slightly used STI, I'd probably be looking at used BMW 335s or even an earlier Lexus ISF. All will have the same or similiar reliability. The I6TT in the BMW is a pretty stout peice, especially if you want to do basic bolt-ons. You can push 400-450whp through those motors with no concern for the block itself.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #72
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It's easy to get lost on tangents. Used anything carries more risks inherently due to more unknown variables. Certified Pre-Owned w/ full manufacturer warranty does reduce some of those unknowns, but it's impossible to measure wear and tear just by looking at something from the outside... kinda like this cute girl innocent looking girl i was into for a while. You could never guess she slept with upwards of close to triple digits including guys older than her parents. Not necessarily a bad thing, but also things to consider.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #73
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Hello guys, I am in the market for a new car and looking into a 2011 STi. I am coming from a built 2001 B5 S4. I am looking for a new,fun, awd turbo car and STi seems the fit the bill perfectly. I have been dealing with issues for years now on my S4 and just ready to move on to something stock, and reliable. My question is, if the STi is left stock, with required fluid changes done, is it a fairly reliable car? I know most people do not buy these cars to leave stock, but I am just looking to replace my S4 with something comparable and letting it as is. Also, is the STi a decent DD in stock trim? I would like to do some road trips in it aswell. I realize the gas mi is not the greatest, but its better than what I getting now in the 2.7TT. I just do not want to buy a pretty expensive vehicle and end up putting money into it. Thank you for any insight or opinions.
I just sold my S4. Sell me yours. I know em like the back of my hand now
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #74
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Well I'm claiming its a problem. We know it exists and we also know it can happen to stock or modified cars. We can't say to any prospective buyer that it won't happen to them because it happens. The chances of it happening are up for debate but it's fact that the issue exists.

I go back to my original post in this thread as the proper advice for any prospective owner to do their own research and make their own decision. Threads like this simply aren't educational as it degenerates to pro-Subaru posters arguing with people that believe or claim there are issues. The information is available at iwsti.com and other sites and its the responsibility of the buyer to do their due dilligence.
The number of stock vehicles that experience a bearing or ringland failure is extremely low. The vast majority of these failures happen on modified vehicles. That is why you do not see Subaru addressing this. They do not design their vehicles for our modifying pleasures. I assure you that if stock motors were blowing up left and right, there would be recalls and lawsuits .... But there are none.

Nobody disputes that the ringlands are the weak point of this motor, but it does not become a real concern until you add a substantial amount of power. And that is the issue I have with this argument. An engine weakness that does not rear its head until you add over 100hp to your motor is not Subaru's problem .. its ours. If you choose to mod, you do so knowing your engines weak points ... No matter what brand vehicle we are talking about.

Its not about being "pro subaru" ... Its about looking at the argument with a level head. Car manufaturers are mandated by law to recall vehicles with defects. That is why you see massive recalls on vehicle parts with just a few documented failures (battery fire for example). And yet, we have yet to see any recalls or class action suits regarding ringlands ... Despite this being a supposed "common problem".
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:14 PM   #75
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The people who are saying its not common are just trying to justify there purchase. Don't get me wrong, its the funnest car I have ever owned and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But..... the engines are junk. They are poorly designed heaps of junk. And the fact there have been ring land failures reported since 2005 disturbs me. Buying an STI/WRX is a crap shoot. New or used. There are threads dedicated to ring land and bearing failures, filled with people reporting them. It is very much common. Some guys and beat the living piss out of their engines and never have a problem, other engines may never see above 3k and blow up multiple times. Its an awesome car, but every time I get into the throttle I am just waiting for something to break, and It definitely should not be that way.
Ok, here's the problem. You've been hanging out around car forums too long. The longer you hang out around car forums, the greater chance you will become an automotive hypochondriac. No matter what car you have, you start to believe you have the aids of whatever model of car you happen to be driving that it start to consume you.
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