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Old 06-10-2014, 01:17 PM   #1
mhoward1
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Default 1,000 mile Ev battery.

Electric car battery tech lets you go 1,000 miles between charges - But the battery must be replaced on average once a year

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...etween_charges
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:37 PM   #2
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well that's one small step for phinergy, one large step for battery tech.
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:30 PM   #3
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the article and video are marketing nonsence

1. what is the energy density
2. can it be manufactured at scale cost effectively

These are the two most important questions for an energy storage system. Im not chemist but I got a strong hunch there is some other nasty chemical in there besides air, aluminum and water.
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
nonsence

Im not chemist
Thank.
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:56 PM   #5
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if the battery change costs about as much as 2 oil changes (about how many you have to do in a year these days), it may not be too bad.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:14 PM   #6
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This is good news for EV. Every one of these types of topics true or not, helps the EV break into the market. All the EV market needs is infrastructure and technology, and to achieve those all it needs is time and persistence. If the auto market can stay on the course long enough EV will be mainstream in 20 or 40 years.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:30 PM   #7
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Awesome!
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
This is good news for EV. Every one of these types of topics true or not, helps the EV break into the market. All the EV market needs is infrastructure and technology, and to achieve those all it needs is time and persistence. If the auto market can stay on the course long enough EV will be mainstream in 20 or 40 years.

I still like the idea of battery swap stations.

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Old 06-11-2014, 12:44 AM   #9
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How can they not at this point have a better form of recharging using the cars own momentum?
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
This is good news for EV. Every one of these types of topics true or not, helps the EV break into the market. All the EV market needs is infrastructure and technology, and to achieve those all it needs is time and persistence. If the auto market can stay on the course long enough EV will be mainstream in 20 or 40 years.
I'm currently jacking free power from a 480v charging station 2-3 times a week
Free is good.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:35 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cazodores View Post
How can they not at this point have a better form of recharging using the cars own momentum?
you mean a more efficient hybrid?
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cazodores View Post
How can they not at this point have a better form of recharging using the cars own momentum?
Throw in a trunk mounted wind turbine and a rooftop solar panel and it'll go forever.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:20 AM   #13
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Thank.
So energy density and the economics of scale production are not the most important considerations for EV bat research?

Please educate us on what you feel to be better metrics. Leading battery Technology researchers at MIT will disagree with you.


also you are wrong
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cazodores View Post
How can they not at this point have a better form of recharging using the cars own momentum?
Most all hybrids do this with regenerative braking. You cant recover all of the energy (or even most) of course though. There will be losses associated with each stage of the energy conversion process.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post

So energy density and the economics of scale production are not the most important considerations for EV bat research?

Please educate us on what you feel to be better metrics. Leading battery Technology researchers at MIT will disagree with you.

also you are wrong
Settle down, Arthur. I quoted your grammatical and spelling errors and typed a one word reply.

Do you stand on street corners and argue with invisible people?
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
If the auto market can stay on the course long enough EV will be mainstream in 20 or 40 years.
I'm going to guess "mainstream," depending on how you define it, is at MOST 20 years away. I think we're approaching a tipping point where the market shifts rapidly over the next decade.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I'm currently jacking free power from a 480v charging station 2-3 times a week
Free is good.
"Free"
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
I'm going to guess "mainstream," depending on how you define it, is at MOST 20 years away. I think we're approaching a tipping point where the market shifts rapidly over the next decade.
How do you define it? I'd say 30-40% market share is mainstream.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:20 PM   #19
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How do you define it? I'd say 30-40% market share is mainstream.
That seems high. Are rotaries and turbo powertrains mainstream? They have far less market percentages.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
Settle down, Arthur. I quoted your grammatical and spelling errors and typed a one word reply.

Do you stand on street corners and argue with invisible people?
Please accept my apologies then. One word responses are even harder to interpret than poorly spelled ones.

I am much more interested in technical discussions than spelling or grammar.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
That seems high. Are rotaries and turbo powertrains mainstream? They have far less market percentages.
Rotaries, no.
Turbo, yes.

Off the top of my head I can't think of an automaker that doesn't offer a turbo vehicle.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
That seems high. Are rotaries and turbo powertrains mainstream? They have far less market percentages.
That depends on market.

Quote:
According to Honeywell, downsized and turbocharged gasoline engines plus turbodiesel engines combined account for more than 75 percent of new vehicles in Europe. The company doesn’t expect the United States to reach that level until around 2025.
For the United States, Honeywell has roughly doubled its estimate for diesel sales penetration by 2018, to 6 percent from 3 percent. By 2018, it expects diesel and gasoline turbo engines combined to account for about 20 to 25 percent of U.S. new-vehicle sales.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry...-into-account/

I think that turbos are "going" mainstream in the US, but they maybe aren't there yet. That's why I asked what people think "being" mainstream is as a percentage of market share. It's loosely defined as "belonging to a principal, dominant, or widely accepted group" and I think that is, at minimum, 20% of market share.

Edit: Thinking more about this, the flip side of the argument is the fact that the Prius was the #1 seller in California for a while, but hybrids still only account for less than 10% of sales in S.F area. So, I do find it conflicting to say that the #1 seller is still part of a cult following. I dunno, that's why I asked.

Last edited by DougNuts; 06-11-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cazodores View Post
How can they not at this point have a better form of recharging using the cars own momentum?
flywheel storage is an alternative to batteries and is being tested by multiple car manufacturers. I recall Porsche having a concept/race car using this technology. I also believe Volvo is messing around with the technology in test mules.

mechanical storage seems like a great idea, but obviously will dissipate over time. Still seems like it's more efficient in the short term compared to trying to create electricity, store it, then re-convert it. It also avoids massive amounts of batteries.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:24 PM   #24
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I think this article is a little misleading.

from the information I was able to gather, the "recharging" of these batteries after 1k miles is complete replacement of the aluminum core, not just "plugging it in" to the wall.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
flywheel storage is an alternative to batteries and is being tested by multiple car manufacturers. I recall Porsche having a concept/race car using this technology. I also believe Volvo is messing around with the technology in test mules.

mechanical storage seems like a great idea, but obviously will dissipate over time. Still seems like it's more efficient in the short term compared to trying to create electricity, store it, then re-convert it. It also avoids massive amounts of batteries.
Thing is, you're trading big heavy batteries with no moving parts for a big heavy flywheel spinning at high speeds. That big flywheel will need an equivalent scatter shield to contain it in the event of a failure or an accident. That scatter shield will add even more weight to the system as you are basically creating an armored compartment to house it (failure is literally like firing bullets or cannon shells into the car, depending on the size of the piece that breaks off)
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