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Old 07-10-2013, 03:14 AM   #26
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Here are some twin-scroll TD06SL2 20g results. I think the second chart had the torque in NM instead of lbs ft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grigory View Post
here they are

Kinugawa twin-scroll TD06SL2 20g

2.5l / jdm 207 cams / stock jdm twinscroll header
avcs fail during dynoing



2.5l grb engine / stock cams / kinugawa twinscroll header


|
wonderful wide powerband, respool is instantenious, response is amazing.

pretty much max HP that could subaru twin scroll housing provide, we measured BP in smaller scroll and it is rised to 2 bar relative when boost 1.2 bar / 6300 rpm.

with single scroll you couldn't have same powerband, but could have slightly higher HP numbers.

also we'll have new turbo with 9 blades and 20g billet ext. tip compressor wheel, so we will make some back to back dyno test.
very interesting how 9bl turboine wheel will affect EBP.

ps we have also made 2.5 grb with stg 1 kelford cams / std header / kinugawa td06h 9 blades - 25g billet ext. tip. - waiting for dynoing.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:09 PM   #27
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Ok, I'll oust some discussion here.

From what I have seen from reading through this entire thread, no chart posted has even come close to pulling off what the very first dyno chart from Ulimited showed...

390 tq and 270hp at 3700 rpm!?!? that is absolute madness. Post #24 confuses me a bit because it seems to be the same turbo with the same wheel upgrades (billet, and STS-9), yet the dyno is shifted wayyyy to the right. Is this because of the 2.0L v 2.5L? OEM headers on the 2.0L? Just looking for a bit of clarification and interpretation of the results.

ALSO,

*Ulimited*, did you ever re-tune that beast on E-85? I'd love to see a chart. I'm going to do some research into these turbos now, your original dyno plot looks like what I am looking for for my SM build :P
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:48 PM   #28
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Tell me more about these twin scroll headers they have? I'm leery of a $500 header with a slip joint connector and 12ga tubing, thats nearing my cost of materials for such a header.

But that dyno of that huge td06-20g, makes my current peak torque at the same rpm that I do. Which is absolutely bonkers. And makes me want a similar setup that wont instantly bustificate my 5speed. But it looks like you'd need to call and order to get a kamak turbo with a TS housing.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:42 PM   #29
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I’m setting up dyno time for some time next week for the e85, I hit a snag so my timing got thrown off. I’m having a custom exhaust/turndown made to keep all the exhaust gasses exiting right behind the driver’s seat as per SM rules.

I’ll be redoing the pump gas tune as well since in need to plumb the EWG back into the downpipe, I’m interested to see how much of the powerless I can mitigate by having the EWG plumbed back into the downpipe very far downstream right before a small vibrant muffler to turndown instead of a full cat back.

As for the difference in my results from post 24 I'd say there are a number of factors. 2.0 vs 2.5, I run a 7cm housing theirs was not listed but may be larger, they are running an internal gate while I am external, they list a KN panel filter while I have a KS 73mm and perrin inlet. Also theirs is the KAKAMK version while I have the Kinugawa, I think they have an upgraded journal bearing compared to mine, not sure of all the differences maybe Steam Speed can chime in there.

And the biggest factor of all would be the tool used to get the results I was on one of Cobbs old mustang Dyno that they sold to Dave Brown at Performance Auto Solutions while post 24 looks to be using some kind of virtual dyno that is measured at the flywheel.

The event I used the car at with the gate exiting to atmosphere was pretty funny, everyone kept approaching me to ask if the car was ok, I got all sorts of peoples takes on the sound from weapons grade ballistics to a starwars pod racer haha

Once I get the new set of results I’ll be sure to post up, hoping sometime next week. I need to go bigger on the injectors and potentially bigger intake or Speed density conversion. On pump the air and fuel was just about maxed out, this turbo flows very well at wastgate pressure it was spooling at 3k 
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #30
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I lost quite a bit of power when I replumbed into the downpipe. I'm curious to see your results.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:51 PM   #31
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This is why I modified my Kinugawa ELH to EWG 38mm and SuperTrapp it. No idea about performance, not yet installed.


Last edited by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN; 07-11-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:41 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Ulimited* View Post
I’m setting up dyno time for some time next week for the e85, I hit a snag so my timing got thrown off. I’m having a custom exhaust/turndown made to keep all the exhaust gasses exiting right behind the driver’s seat as per SM rules.
FWIW, you don't need to have the gasses exit behind the driver's seat in SM.

Section 3.3.3.B.15: "Exhaust must exit behind driver or to the side of the car."

Section 16.1.D (SM): "Drivetrain and related components are unrestricted."

The "behind the driver's seat" thing you are thinking of is an SP rule (section 15.10.I). SM doesn't adopt this rule from SP because 16.1.D overwrites it.


So, you could have them fab up a sweet side exit system if you wanted... granted, it would be harder to meet sound by not pointing it downward. Just wanted to let you know you've got options!

I'm probably going to look into a side exit exhaust for my SM car next year if my front/lower mount turbo project comes together

Last edited by visibiliti; 07-11-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visibiliti View Post
FWIW, I don't think you need to have the gasses exit behind the driver's seat in SM.

Section 3.3.3.B.15: "Exhaust must exit behind driver or to the side of the car."

Section 16.1.D (SM): "Drivetrain and related components are unrestricted."

The "behind the driver's seat" thing you are thinking of is an SP rule (section 15.10.I)


So, you could have them fab up a sweet side exit system if you wanted... granted, it would be harder to meet sound by not pointing it downward. Just wanted to let you know you've got options!

I'm probably going to look into a side exit exhaust for my SM car next year if my front/lower mount turbo project comes together
Safety/tech is going to ding you for that one. You can run the exhaust straight to the side though, but IMO an in engine bay dump is not legal by the rules and by the safety regs.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #34
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where did I say in engine bay dump?? lol. I said side exit! Am I misinterpretting ?

3.3.3.B.15 *is* the safety section.. so how could they ding you?
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:52 PM   #35
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^ Good point, I’m much better at driving than interpreting the rule book

Still I'm not sure the 16.1.D would supersede the 3.3.3.B.15 rule would it?

I do still street the car occasionally and wanted to have a capability for a full exhaust, I have a vband flange right at the end of the down pipe so when I get to events I can just clamp on the turndown while I’m changing my tires.

And yes also not meeting db requirements was a concern, with the open gate and a 7cm housing it was pretty ridiculous since its nearly always open. I see people having success with the super traps but didn’t want to go that route, also my tuner recommended I not. I'll get some pics up soon of what Ive got going on.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:57 PM   #36
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Engage thruster!

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Old 07-11-2013, 07:02 PM   #37
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Ok well since this is a turbo thread in PPB, ill quit talking about rules and we can bump the SM autox thread if we wanna talk there.

Anyways, good point about the 7cm and being open a lot. I am curious- having the setup you have, would you ever consider switching to the td06 with a 20 or 25g comp housing? Gabe has mentioned in another kamak thread that he likes his dyno chart pushed left like yours is but is workin on a td06 25g hybrid... I'm just surprised because your chart that you posted on the td05 seems tits McGee. Overall impressions of your setup when you are out racing?

Thanks!
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Ulimited* View Post
I知 setting up dyno time for some time next week for the e85, I hit a snag so my timing got thrown off. I知 having a custom exhaust/turndown made to keep all the exhaust gasses exiting right behind the driver痴 seat as per SM rules.

I値l be redoing the pump gas tune as well since in need to plumb the EWG back into the downpipe, I知 interested to see how much of the powerless I can mitigate by having the EWG plumbed back into the downpipe very far downstream right before a small vibrant muffler to turndown instead of a full cat back.

As for the difference in my results from post 24 I'd say there are a number of factors. 2.0 vs 2.5, I run a 7cm housing theirs was not listed but may be larger, they are running an internal gate while I am external, they list a KN panel filter while I have a KS 73mm and perrin inlet. Also theirs is the KAKAMK version while I have the Kinugawa, I think they have an upgraded journal bearing compared to mine, not sure of all the differences maybe Steam Speed can chime in there.

And the biggest factor of all would be the tool used to get the results I was on one of Cobbs old mustang Dyno that they sold to Dave Brown at Performance Auto Solutions while post 24 looks to be using some kind of virtual dyno that is measured at the flywheel.

The event I used the car at with the gate exiting to atmosphere was pretty funny, everyone kept approaching me to ask if the car was ok, I got all sorts of peoples takes on the sound from weapons grade ballistics to a starwars pod racer haha

Once I get the new set of results I値l be sure to post up, hoping sometime next week. I need to go bigger on the injectors and potentially bigger intake or Speed density conversion. On pump the air and fuel was just about maxed out, this turbo flows very well at wastgate pressure it was spooling at 3k 
Dan, Im interested to see your results on E85 with enough fuel etc...

Ian,
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:56 PM   #39
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I haven't made it for a protune yet, but this is my TD05h 16G that I tuned with Eric from Torqued Performance. My mod list is the turbo, AEM intake, Tomei EQL headers & up pipe, Cobb catted down pipe, Invidia Q300 cat back, Grimspeed 3 port, and Process West top mount.

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Old 07-25-2013, 10:21 AM   #40
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^just so you know the Tomei ELH is also made by Kinugawa just rebranded Tomei.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:57 PM   #41
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^ that is something new I learned I had no idea. I have them and I must say I love the tq gains
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:21 PM   #42
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Yup gt spec mad dad and a few others make the same exact design. So when you see tomei going for 900 and a kinugawa for 450, just remember your only paying for the name. I went with kinugawa and never looked back.
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:33 PM   #43
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^+1 I also went kinugawa!!!
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN View Post
^just so you know the Tomei ELH is also made by Kinugawa just rebranded Tomei.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [JT] View Post
Yup gt spec mad dad and a few others make the same exact design. So when you see tomei going for 900 and a kinugawa for 450, just remember your only paying for the name. I went with kinugawa and never looked back.
You guys are mistaken. The Kinugawa (GTspec, Maddad, and others) are made by SSI, and is different than the Tomei's. Just look at where the pipes are joined together.

The SSI (Kinugawa, etc) has welded together sections while the tomei is formed. The SSI design has a greater chance of cracking at those joints.

SSI: (Kinugawa, GTspec, Maddad, etc)


Tomei:

Last edited by Fierysun; 08-04-2013 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:14 PM   #45
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Good detective work
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:07 AM   #46
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As stated Tomei is made in the same factory as others, we are not mistaken, the welding is a marketing and differentiator ploy not worth $450 more and look at the Tomei flanges what does it say? SSI...
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:46 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN View Post
As stated Tomei is made in the same factory as others, we are not mistaken, the welding is a marketing and differentiator ploy not worth $450 more and look at the Tomei flanges what does it say? SSI...
Nope you are still mistaken and you need to stop spreading misinformation. The flanges on the Tomeis does not say ssi, but the O logo for Tomei. I have both sets of headers and have compared them thoroughly. They are not the same header. The ssi with the 3 tubes joined with welds at the same point is the weaker of the two header design. Also, I paid 599 for a brand new set of Tomei ELH from a vendor on this forum, so your price difference example is wrong as well.

Last edited by Fierysun; 08-05-2013 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:23 AM   #48
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Good eye. Never noticed the different welds. Anyways, I think it's safe to say all the headers are very similar. I am happy with the kinugawa still, has not cracked or leaked. I like to save money wherever I can without sacrificing performance, but that's just me.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:31 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post

Nope you are still mistaken and you need to stop spreading misinformation. The flanges on the Tomeis does not say ssi, but the O logo for Tomei. I have both sets of headers and have compared them thoroughly. They are not the same header. The ssi with the 3 tubes joined with welds at the same point is the weaker of the two header design. Also, I paid 599 for a brand new set of Tomei ELH from a vendor on this forum, so your price difference example is wrong as well.
Most people pay closer to $850 for essentially the same headers, you even said so, less than $1000 was your estimate:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...20&postcount=7

Again the wrap and additional welds is a differentiator, all of them are made at the same facility in Taiwan, my bad flanges do say O instead of SSI, again another differentiator for what essentially is the same header.

I work for a turbo supplier so I know a thing or two of who makes what.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:35 PM   #50
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But ok back to these turbo. I want to see more results of the kinuguwa twin scroll headers.
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