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Old 05-08-2013, 11:58 AM   #1
sense of nature
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?? pending....
sale....

Default What would you do?

Quick briefing:

Had a machine shop bore & hone a sleeved block. I informed purchaser of the work thst was performed on block as per the paperwork I was given
Things came up & had to sell it for funds
Gave the new owner paperwork ftom machine shop stating what was done.
A few months go
By & new owner gets parts together to build & finds out the machine shop messed up& bored block 100 mm instead of 99.75 as stated on paperwork
Now new owner wants me to either buy block back or purchase pistons he had ordered that dont fit
Am I being a dick for refusing both?
I think Im not because I informed him only what Iinfo I was given, i never measured the block & trusted the machine shop to do theyre job correctly
Sorry but its not my mistake imo
Right or wrong?
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #2
WRXy Beast
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You didn't deliberately misrepresent or cover anything up to the buyer. Buying used always has it's pitfalls and he's looking to you to cover that expense. I would say you aren't nor should you be on the hook. But the question is why can't he just call the place he bought the pistons from and exchange them for pistons that fit, unless he bought those used off someone too, which if that's the case he probably won't lose much if he resold them used. While an inconvinience to him, I fail to see why he would be stuck and need your help.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:55 PM   #3
bluE-d1ff
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^^^
What he said.
3+ months later hes comin back to you??
****ing noobs.
Hell even a month is to long to wait for something like...no scratch that..... ANYTHING.
Lesson learned, hopefully he didnt buy the pistons "a few months ago" as well and can recover some funds.
Lesson learned: ALWAYS double check everything!!
I can vouch for you Sense of Nature, youre a stand up guy, no way should you buy back the block or the pistons.
What does he think you are Wallmart?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:14 PM   #4
Foo_Blyat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluE-d1ff View Post
What does he think you are Wallmart?
^^^^^^^^
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:59 PM   #5
hoffmanEstates
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Get in.contact with engine builder and be like wtf? His mistake no?. Maybe he can't measure or brain farted and purchased wrong parts.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #6
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If you only supplied the block as a machined core, and he purchased his own parts, he should have gone through and measured the block to be 100% sure that the parts are going to be applicable.

It's a case of someone selling something that a third party mis-represented by accident. If you were selling the block as a whole unit assembled then clearly you would have noticed the difference and had rectified it yourself via the machinist.

You can't buy something back "just cause". Personally never dealt with the situation but a client of ours is going through that now. Sold a brand new in box grimspeed ewg pipes kit and it's the wrong style flange, even though the box is correct. Now the purchaser will need to go through the sources of where it was purchased and hopefully will be taken care of but that's a wrong part that's easily replaced. Pistons costs a bit more and are not generally stocking items as they have to be tailored so maybe whomever he purchased it from would help him out. Mild restock fee would probably be needed.

They're is a very simple saying in the aftermarket community, there are no warranties...that goes for everything. Purchases can't be guaranteed nor can the products or services because mistakes happen.

What type of pistons are they? Maybe I can help him out with it? I might be looking for some 99.75 pistons and maybe we can work something out as a swap? haha.

-Mark
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #7
BrianH
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Quote:
Sorry but its not my mistake imo
Right or wrong?
Right, IMO.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:07 PM   #8
06_black_wrx
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Race him for pinks, take the car and block then. Problem solved.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #9
Doc_Auc
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It's not necessarily a simple answer. Are you a private individual selling to another private individual? If so, and you didn't know about the difference, there's no way you would be on the hook unless you made some kind of knowing misrepresentation.

It gets more tricky if you sold it in the conduct of trade or business. In Illinois at least, that's covered by the Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. Given what you've said, I doubt you would be on the hook, but it's still possible.

That said, the buyer might have some kind of remedy against the machine shop depending on how the transaction was structured.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:15 PM   #10
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I dont think your in the wrong at all.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:16 PM   #11
cyclura
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Hello all I am the buyer here.
I dug up the AES Invoice and no they don't have the bore size on there. just bore cylinders 1-4. So the 99.75 bore size came from you. You are just trying to pass the buck to AES here. All I had was his word that they were 99.75s and it cost me $650. So How am I the bad guy here? I was ripped off as he didn't even know what he had and he then proceeded to sell it to me with the wrong bore size's. Going off his setup of 99.75 pistons size JE pistons he was going to use.
I understand that I got the block a few months back, but I had to get the rest of the build parts for the Long block which took some time. The shop who is building it is extremely reputable in the Chicago area.

Just remember there is always 2 sides to every story.

Last edited by cyclura; 05-11-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:20 PM   #12
AdventureBug
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why can't you get the pistons exchanged? I've bought plenty of parts from SenseofNature before and he's always been honest seller.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:06 AM   #13
end0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdventureBug View Post
why can't you get the pistons exchanged? I've bought plenty of parts from SenseofNature before and he's always been honest seller.
This. ^


Also it doesn't sound like he was trying to rip you off Cyclura. He asked for 99.75 bore and thought that's what he got. It's an honest mistake on his part. I'd say just return your pistons, sell them, or maybe someone can do a trade. But anyway I don't think sense of nature needs to do a refund.

The only way I could see sense of nature doing a refund is if you bought the block then next day found out it wasn't what you wanted.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:23 AM   #14
kamil212
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sense of nature mightn't speak enrish good, but he well guy

that's all I got...
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:29 AM   #15
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...well...
Looks like an honest mistake and as long as the buyer is cool about it, I'm sure something sensible can be worked out. But if the buyer is not cool about it, throws a fit, requesting his money back stat, I would just tell him to drown in a bag of dicks.
Then again, I don't have the details.

I live my life a quarter mm at a time.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:35 AM   #16
sense of nature
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclura View Post
Hello all I am the buyer here.
I dug up the AES Invoice and no they don't have the bore size on there. just bore cylinders 1-4. So the 99.75 bore size came from you. You are just trying to pass the buck to AES here. All I had was his word that they were 99.75s and it cost me $650. So How am I the bad guy here? I was ripped off as he didn't even know what he had and he then proceeded to sell it to me with the wrong bore size's. Going off his setup of 99.75 pistons size JE pistons he was going to use.
I understand that I got the block a few months back, but I had to get the rest of the build parts for the Long block which took some time. The shop who is building it is extremely reputable in the Chicago area.

Just remember there is always 2 sides to every story.
The block was supposed to be 99.75, there was now way for me to verify 1 way or another if they 100 mm or 99.75
No one was saying your a "bad guy", just that things should have been verified by the builder before parts were ordered ( especially since the paperwork does not say what the bore size is?) Ripped off?
You bought sleeved case halves for 1200, how's that being ripped off?
AGAIN I HAD NO IDEA THE BORE SIZE WAS INCORRECT AS THERE WAS NO WAY FOR ME TO CHECK
Your idea is I sold you the block knowingly they were incorrect... not the case
But I'm not buying the block back, or buying your pistons .
Sorry
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:40 AM   #17
hoffmanEstates
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^ right there, to the point, end of argument. Lets all carry on
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:40 PM   #18
APM Tuned
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Hmm, well, if it's not on the paperwork from the blue print sheet then I'm wondering what else isn't there.

This may be a situation of the third party requiring to have some input as to what had happened.

A question for the purchaser...whomever is building the engine might also have some input if the job is being taken upon a business it's always good to triple check things. Our machinist has his own will so tell him to basically get everything suited to what is being done and let me know what they need to get it there.

It's an odd situation but I don't think there is a need for any sort of animosity towards one another, maybe the place where you purchased the pistons will help you out by not charging a restock fee or you can find someone who has a need for the pistons through one of the mega build threads on the forum?

I offered to help but I believe the client is pulling the trigger on a different style build, either way, let me know (via pm) if maybe there would be something we can do to be beneficial for both parties.

-Mark
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:44 PM   #19
Doc_Auc
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Guys, I would recommend staying out of this since it may turn into a civil dispute. That said, if I were the buyer and seller I would try to work with the third parties involved to exchange parts or reach some other resolution.

$.02 from a commercial litigator.
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:07 PM   #20
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Well after trying to sort this out like honest men, He has chosen to Lie to me and play dumb on this issue. Sure I could take this clown to small claims, but its just not worth the hassel my Lawyer and I have decided. Let this be a lesson to all, one I learned the hard way TRUST NO ONE! He is in the wrong and has given me multiple lies about the block to try and pass the buck where ever he could. He even called the police on me cause I hurt his feelings. So we cut communication with each other per his request because he kept getting caught in his lies. BUYER BEWARE His mistake cost me 750 dollars so don't be his next Victim!
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #21
kamil212
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$750 huh?

sense, you're buying the first round tmrw.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:24 PM   #22
BrianH
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650 in the first post.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:57 PM   #23
Doc_Auc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
650 in the first post.
At the time, he was just trying to get Sense to buy back pistons. There was probably a re-stock fee on the pistons he bought, so if he also has had to buy new pistons, I don't see the inconsistency .

Anyways, this should be a lesson to everyone here because legally, Sense is in a bad position. I know there's a lot of talk about buyer beware, etc., but the law of contracts includes a doctrine of "mistake." When both parties are "mistaken" about a the same material fact, the contract can be rescinded.

In this case, Sense and Cyclura were "mistaken" about the bore size. Cyclura was therefore well within his rights to ask that Sense rescind the contract and return his money. This would put the parties back in the same position they were in originally - with Sense having the block and Cyclura having his money. A court could also have ordered other equitable relief, including having Sense paying the consequential and incidental damages of the mutual mistake instead of fully rescinding the contract.

I know you guys think that Sense is a stand-up guy, but the law doesn't care about that. It only cares that, at best, he was party to a mistaken contract, and therefore can be obligated to "make things right." Generally you also shouldn't call the cops when you're trying to work out a contract dispute. You call your lawyer if you need to, but hassling someone else like that in a contract dispute is just low and will prejudice a judge and jury against you. It's also stupid if the police were to later conclude that Sense obtained property through "false pretenses," which is a crime in Illinois.
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