Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday December 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2013, 01:39 AM   #1
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default A Mainahs take on LeMons racing!

Well, it's finally happening!

I've been trying to get some friends to do this for a little while now, but just recently I was able to get together a good group of guys and we're going to give this thing a shot!

None of us have raced cars before, the most racing experience we have in the group would be myself...racing mountain bikes in high school. None of us are master mechanics, two of us have no idea how to use a torque wrench. However, each one of us wants to have fun, and we're all going to share our knowledge and have a good time (hopefully).

We still have to come up with a name and a theme but those will come after we purchase our sweet set of $500 wheels. Speaking of which, I have to go do that this weekend (as long as the car checks out).

I guess there's not much yet, just a wall of text, but there will be a properly documented build for this car and I can't wait to get started!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

Welcome to the addiction. Be prepared to learn a lot, and definitely buy the shop manual for your car. Also, familiarize yourself with making things look bad, but perform better than they should. And lying. Lying and cheating

The team I'm on has 2 hardcore VW guys, and 2 guys who've taken cars down to frame and back several times and we're just now getting the car to where it can have a shot at winning (if nothing goes wrong). Started last year in May working on it, so one year later and 3 14 hour races into our 97 Golf and it's starting to look like a "race car".

By far the best mod we've done is installing the bottle opener on the rear hatch!
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #3
Tim_
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 304128
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default

What car are you planning on racing? Be advised to not buy the first $500 car you find on craigslist just because it is $500. Consider the cost or replacement parts also. How much can you find a new or spare engine for if need be? I've done 5 races and were on our 4th motor.

Whatever you buy, a proper cage will go for about $2k installed, so your first race may end up being the most expensive due to the fact that you have purchase the car and convert it to race ready condition.

Check out the forums on the lemons web site and also chumpcar.

Good luck!

Oh yea, and don't forget, you'll all need safety gear - helmet, suit, gloves, shoes, socks etc.

Last edited by Tim_; 05-24-2013 at 11:32 AM.
Tim_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 11:35 AM   #4
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_ View Post
What car are you planning on racing? Be advised to not buy the first $500 car you find on craigslist just because it is $500. Consider the cost or replacement parts also. How much can you find a new or spare engine for if need be? I've done 5 races and were on our 4th motor.

Whatever you buy, a proper cage will go for about $2k installed, so your first race may end up being the most expensive due to the fact that you have purchase the car and convert it to race ready condition.

Check out the forums on the lemons web site and also chumpcar.

Good luck!

Oh yea, and don't forget, you'll all need safety gear - helmet, suit, gloves, shoes, socks etc.
This.

We picked our car because we could make it light, we knew the car, engines/transmissions/parts are cheap and easily available, and it would be easy on consumables (fuel, brakes, tires).

For the cage, one of the guys on the team works at a steel mill so we split the cost of the tubing and gave him a break on the entry fee for the first race. If you know someone who welds cages, buy them a metric **** ton of beer that they like and hope they cut you break on cost

All said and done, we have $6k into the car in hard parts and probably about $8k after consumables for 3 races. However, now it'll get cheaper as we'll maintain the car and (hopefully) not have to replace major parts.
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #5
pieces
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42964
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NoVA
Vehicle:
08 STI, 03OBS, 99L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
This.
All said and done, we have $6k into the car in hard parts and probably about $8k after consumables for 3 races. However, now it'll get cheaper as we'll maintain the car and (hopefully) not have to replace major parts.

Ahh, thank you for that info. I've been wondering that forever. I figured safety and consumables would be pretty hefty compared to "car" price.
pieces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #6
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pieces View Post
Ahh, thank you for that info. I've been wondering that forever. I figured safety and consumables would be pretty hefty compared to "car" price.
It's the elephant in the room for these races

A better cost analysis is as follows and includes purchase price of the car.

$0 - $3,500 : You have a car that will race, but will most likely be mid-pack. Very little development done, basically a stock car with a cage and the safety stuff.

$3,501-$5,500 : Some development has gone into the car, you've found a few cheaty parts and/or picked a more optimized wheel/tire setup. Some nicer equipment is in the car in terms of safety and you probably have some sort of radio communications in the car now.

$5,501-$7,500 : You've probably optimized what you can without going over the 5,000 hour mark in man hours. The car should be very light and have some basic aero while making good power. You've also invested in spares and spent the time to make the interior a nice place to be (in general).

$7,501 - ????? : Sky's really the limit.


A decent number of cars that are sold for this set the sale price for the car at $500 and then there's a separate transaction for "safety items". That's really how you have to look at it because almost none of these cars are in the first category price wise.

And that doesn't begin to cover "other" stuff like towing setup, paddock setup, hot pit setup, tools, and the big one, entry fee. The team I'm on is lucky in that two of us have diesel trucks with enclosed trailers and one has a Polaris 4x4 that we use a pit vehicle.

All that said, we spend $2,500 all in for wear items, consumables, towing to and from the track, and entry fees per race. The reason this is so popular is all the costs are split between drivers/owners so for 2, 2 hour stints in wheel to wheel racing it usually costs me $625 a race.

It's a great time, lots of adrenaline and fun. Plus you get to feel like a "real racer" as you go 3 wide through turn 12 at Road Atlanta. And when people at work ask what you did over the weekend you can really say "I went racing" instead of trying to describe autox in a cool way for the 50th time
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 02:16 PM   #7
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

Thanks for the support guys!

I'm heading down to take a look at a car today, hopefully it'll all check out. We've been looking on craigslist for the past month or two for a car for the right price with a 5 speed transmission and easy to source used parts. I think we've found just the car, but I won't say anything until it's back here at my house.

We recognize that the safety gear and cost to race is the real costs in all of this, as long as the car doesn't wreck we can find a motor for $300 and transmission for $200 all day long, same with other parts. I have a two bay garage so I can set one aside just for the project most of the time, and we've got a full set of tools, the only thing we're lacking is a lift really. Maybe that will come along down the road, but I doubt it.

Now we just have to look into finding a good cage builder, there's one guy I know who welds cages in my area, I'll have to see what he charges, it won't be his usual type of car either since he does mostly stock cars, so this may be interesting...

I'll keep you all posted!
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:10 PM   #8
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

What car are you looking at? Those of us who have run a few races like this can tell you what will generally do well, and what will generally do poorly.
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:16 PM   #9
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default



Well, we ended up picking up a 1998 Subaru Forester today. Runs strong, transmission shifts well, solid car all around.

Not sure it's exactly what we'll use, we can easily get our $600 back if we decide to go a different route, but parts are easy to find, fairly inexpensive and a few of us have worked on Subarus before. It doesn't really scream race car, but oh well!
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:41 PM   #10
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

Those do well with mail carrier themes. Be aware of spun bearings in long sweeping corners. It should have the 2.2 and they're generally good. Maybe find a way to enlarge the oil pan to carry another quart or two and run a heavier weight oil like 15w-50. The suspension and drivetrain is generally good. Buy some ebay coilover springs and then drain the shocks and fill them with 30w shock oil. Stock sway bars matched with that combo should give "good enough" body roll control with decent handling. Spend about 50 hours with an angle grinder and cut off wheels to get the weight out. A bigger pulley on the power steering pump will prevent it from boiling the fluid out at higher rpm. Make sure you fix any leaks around the head gasket or valve covers to keep all the oil you can inside the engine.

I've seen two of these cars finish races and both teams focused on making sure the oiling system was happy. Beyond that they really didn't care.
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:54 PM   #11
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

I'll look into that suspension setup, not sure if we can budget that in since we don't have much to part out from it, but we can give it a shot.

If we can't get the coils we might trade the current struts/springs for a set of WRX suspension to tighten it up a bit and lower it.

We will be taking a LOT of weight out. I've got the next two or three weeks free because my job doesn't go full time until summer really kicks around in full swing so I'll be doing odd jobs and working on the car until then.

Thanks for the heads up on the oil, I'm not sure if the motor is a 2.2 or 2.5, my 2000 was is a 2.5L, but this one seemed to have a bit different airbox and setup, might be a slightly different motor, or just difference between the model years. I'll look into the power steering pulleys, thanks for the heads up on that too. Luckily this one doesn't seem to leak from the HGs, which is weird since it has about 200K on the clock. We will definitely add more oil to it one way or another.

Thanks again!

Last edited by That guy in Maine; 05-26-2013 at 12:04 AM.
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 06:02 PM   #12
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

So we bought the car...but we have no way to get it back to my house at this point. It's having an issue with a sensor which puts it into limp mode when you drive through puddles/wet...so we don't want to drive it home really.

My dad is out of town the next few days or we'd just take his new Tundra like the plan was...but I guess we'll have to wait to get the car back here and start stripping it down.
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:19 PM   #13
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: GTX3076R-276/272, GTX3071R
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Im deff interested in how things go for you!

Good Luck and have fun!
rexworx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:44 PM   #14
Tim_
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 304128
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default

Hope it doesn't rain during your race.
Tim_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:47 PM   #15
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_ View Post
Hope it doesn't rain during your race.
...not sure if you're serious. You think we're just going to ignore that issue and not fix the wiring?

Anyways, should have the car back at my garage in a few days
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 03:22 PM   #16
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
It should have the 2.2 and they're generally good.
All of the Foresters in the US have always been EJ25s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Maybe find a way to enlarge the oil pan to carry another quart or two and run a heavier weight oil like 15w-50.
The EJ25D has a pretty big oil pan - bigger than the newer turbo and N/A motors. One "trick" I was told by PIA up near Seattle when I was stationed out there was to use the oil dipstick from a turbo car with the stock EJ25D pan. Since the turbo pans have a big chunk taken out of them to allow for the header routing, but they still run with essentially the same oil capacity, the oil level is higher. Thus, the WRX/STI dipsticks are shorter than the stock N/A dipstick, so FULL on the dipstick gives you about 1qt more oil capacity. The level in the pan is still safe (not too close to the crank), obviously, since that level is deemed safe in the turbo (and newer N/A) engines.

I've been running that shorter dipstick for 4 or 5 years now, including multiple track events and auto-x events, with no issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That guy in Maine View Post
Thanks for the heads up on the oil, I'm not sure if the motor is a 2.2 or 2.5, my 2000 was is a 2.5L, but this one seemed to have a bit different airbox and setup, might be a slightly different motor, or just difference between the model years. I'll look into the power steering pulleys, thanks for the heads up on that too. Luckily this one doesn't seem to leak from the HGs, which is weird since it has about 200K on the clock. We will definitely add more oil to it one way or another.
Unless it's been swapped at some point (which I suppose isn't impossible with 200k+ miles on it), a '98 Forester would have the DOHC EJ25D. Those are renowned for head gasket issues, so it is possible someone swapped it out for an EJ22 at some point in the past 15 years. The intake tract of the Phase I EJ25D looks different from the Phase II EJ251 that your 2000 would've had. (I think the 2000 would've been MAP-based rather than the MAF the '98 will have.)

It should be pretty easy to figure out if it's an EJ25D, as the DOHC timing belt covers are obviously different from the SOHC covers.
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 05:58 PM   #17
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
All of the Foresters in the US have always been EJ25s.


The EJ25D has a pretty big oil pan - bigger than the newer turbo and N/A motors. One "trick" I was told by PIA up near Seattle when I was stationed out there was to use the oil dipstick from a turbo car with the stock EJ25D pan. Since the turbo pans have a big chunk taken out of them to allow for the header routing, but they still run with essentially the same oil capacity, the oil level is higher. Thus, the WRX/STI dipsticks are shorter than the stock N/A dipstick, so FULL on the dipstick gives you about 1qt more oil capacity. The level in the pan is still safe (not too close to the crank), obviously, since that level is deemed safe in the turbo (and newer N/A) engines.
Sorry, I read it as a Legacy instead of Forester for some reason.

I was also thinking of the Moroso pan where they essentially welded a quart sized box to the back of the pan for extra capacity. I used to run the pan about .5 quarts over filled when I was on the stock pan, but if you've done 1 quart over, even better. Combine the two ideas and you'd get over 6 quarts in the sump.
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 01:46 AM   #18
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

Finally...updates!

So we went and picked the car up yesterday. It was an epic journey for me, it took me a bit over 3 hours to get the trailer picked up from U-Haul and get to the car, we loaded it on using some straps and got it ready to go on the road. Then headed 3 hours away to pick up Peter who was coming in by bus. After driving through Portland with the car in tow we headed home(ish) and made a few pitstops. Ended up getting back to my house around 9 and I left at 11. A good solid 10 hours of driving and some short breaks later and I was done with driving

Well, we got the car back to my place and installed our new battery which we picked up and that was pretty much all for yesterday. Today we woke up, drove down to drop the trailer off and get Jons truck that we left yesterday and came back to work on the car. We started by stripping out the interior which took a little while. Once we got all the trim and such off (except the dash) we took a break and I went and did some manual practice since none of them have really ever driven manual before. Finished up a bit later, came back and kept removing stuff. In this process I went to plug the speedometer sensor back in since it wasn't hooked up and that led to me discovering that one of the axles had two torn CV boots. Oh well, off to NAPA to get some replacements and we spent the rest of the night working on that and a few other things.

As the car sits it has most of its interior out, probably 95%, and we're tackling the rest (including soundproofing) tomorrow morning. Here's some pictures!





More updates and pictures tomorrow probably!

Last edited by That guy in Maine; 06-05-2013 at 06:20 PM.
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #19
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Pictures don't work for me. I tried cutting and pasting the picture link into another window and Google says that URL can't be found.
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 03:16 PM   #20
Tim_
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 304128
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default

None of your drivers have experience w/manual transmissions?

I wish you luck. I worry enough about experienced drivers money shifting. We've lost two motors already due to over-rev.


and your pics don't work.
Tim_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 06:22 PM   #21
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

Pictures should work now, I guess my chrome rehoster doesn't work anymore

Yeah...they're getting a lot better with shifting, we aren't really trying to win this since it's our first race and we're just going to be testing the car out. We'll probably take it easy so hopefully won't be ruining any motors/transmissions anytime soon. We'll be working on shifting though.

More updates tonight!
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 08:49 PM   #22
Chucktownsti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 357562
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:
2013 STI
Dark Grey Metallic

Default

What track are you going to be racing it on?
Chucktownsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 08:54 PM   #23
That guy in Maine
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 256642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
NoGF thread knows
drama.

Default

NHMS will be our first race hopefully.
That guy in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #24
Tim_
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 304128
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by That guy in Maine View Post
What's going on here? Is someone using Youtube to figure out how to replace an axle?

If so... well, I think you should look into finding someone with a lot of mechanical expertise willing to help you guys out - at least at the track if nothing else. Should anything go wrong, you'll want to have someone handy-the more the better. (we have two mechanical engineers on my team and I would not be racing if they weren't on the team)

You'll want to get the service manual or Chilton/haynes guide at the very least.

A lot of teams show up completely out of their element when something goes wrong, and spend most, if not all, of the weekend working on the car instead of racing it. You don't want to be those guys.

Also, do as much research as you can on what you'll need at the track so you can minimize the stress. Find out if the track has fuel, or if you have to get your own (it's usually cheaper if you go off site). You'll need a few 5 gal jugs - more the better.
Tim_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 12:22 PM   #25
subydude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi
What's A Head Gasket?

Default

Yep, we have 6, 5 gallon jugs and fill them up at a cheap local place before traveling. All four on the team have swapped engines and are very mechanically inclined. And we do a LOT of testing. Take the car to autox events and find a wiring issue after 20-30 minutes of running that would have been a major issue at a race. Now it's just some stress free time in the garage with a multimeter.
subydude is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.