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Old 06-03-2013, 10:58 AM   #1
Dborne
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Default Tuning after swap. Cant idle

I swapped in a 08 WRX motor after the motor in my 04 FXT finally went out. It has

Top feed TGVs deleted
Deleted air pump
Grimspeed uppipe and full exhaust (cant remember the brand right now)
Bosch 850cc top feed injectors

I cannot get it to idle for the life of me. I will try to let it learn idle, it will idle roughly, then if I rev it up, as it comes back down it'll stumble then die.

My A/F corrections is 25.0 went its idling, and I feel like its running really lean. Wideband will be here today.

Now, if my corrections are positive, it is adding fuel. So therefore I need to raise my injector flow scaling or my latency. The Bosch injector latency chart I got starts at 8v and goes to 18v. So I dont know what to put at 6v in the latency. Does that mean these injectors arent meant for 6v?

I thought I had a vacuum leak, fixed what I thought was it and still same thing.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #2
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Post your injector latencies and scaling.
What intake is on the car also?

Basically the car is at max correction in CL. so yes a +25% is stupid lean. Either, MAF sclae is not set correctly, scale/lats incorrect.

Or you can just call the shop i'll walk you through it.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #3
Dborne
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Stock intake. With injector flow scaling, I had 850 first, now Im at 890 and no change at all.

As for latency's, I started with the DW 850 latencys, then I changed them to

6-3.5
9-1.03
12-.74
14-.60
16-.46

From 9v and up are the latencys for the injectors, I just guessed at 6 because the chart started at 8v.

Im going to check for more vacuum leaks this afternoon.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #4
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The issues is probably your latencies. There is alot of conflicting info on the DW850s I ended up using something closer to stock and tweaking form there. When I tried using the data sheet from DW the car ran like ****, I ended up finding somebody on Romraider who posted a good set of latencies and went from there.

I would start with stock latencies and tweak from there.
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:42 PM   #5
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making the number higher will only make your car run leaner btw. You have to think of it as if your the car.... it thought it had 850's in it so it sprays X amount of fuel in the cylinder. now you have 890's so your car says oh... i have 890's i dont have to spray for as long because bigger injectors!

There are other things you should look at too like Fuel overrun which is when the injectors turn back on when its reving down.. if you play with the idle at all (target idle) you will want to play with these settings. if you send over a pm to me i will take a look and help where i can.

Best advise right now though is to put in 825 as your number and try restarting it again. when it warms up and is out of 7 mode, in to 8 mode, see what hte correction is. If its less the 25 then you are on the right track... Then you can start playing with the maf settings to get it right.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:26 PM   #6
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You can always change your axis for the latencies. There's no reason you have to stick with 6, 9, 12, etc. Change them to what you want/need, so long as it still covers roughly the same range. If your battery is at 6v, you have worse things to think about than the fueling getting a little wacky...

Like Bamofo said, you're think about rich/lean and the values in the ROM backwards. Higher scalar in the ROM means the ECU opens the injector for less time, which will make you run more lean. Higher latency in the ROM means the ECU opens the injector longer, which will make you run more rich.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:59 PM   #7
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When watching in on romraider, the A/F correction starts negative, then after idling for 5 seconds or so, goes all the way back up to positive 25. There's nothing in the A/F learning and the A/F sensor starts around 12 or 13, then as it idles, shoots up to 17-19 ish. What's going on?
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:26 PM   #8
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And maybe I have a misunderstanding of what the volts mean. What is the volt axis mean on the latency chart? If its the amount volts running through the car, why does it go down to 6v and up to 18v? My car wouldnt even be running if it was at 6volts.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dborne View Post
And maybe I have a misunderstanding of what the volts mean. What is the volt axis mean on the latency chart? If its the amount volts running through the car, why does it go down to 6v and up to 18v?
To cover extreme conditions. 18v is a bit ridiculous, as is 6v, but you could see anywhere between about 9-10v and 14v depending on conditions (9-10v = cold cranking on a low battery, 14v = healthy battery and alternator while running).
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:52 PM   #10
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So if I'm idling , 14v is the one that is going to be the most effective changing in the latency table? And while idling, the fuel pressure will be less then 43psi at which the injectors are tested at. So the injectors would really be around 825cc... That's why it's adding so much corrections at idle when I have te flow scale at 850?
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:16 AM   #11
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Unplug the FPR from the vacuum source i assure you it's near 43psi. 43psi static, not vacuum adjusted.

And no not at all...the car isn't running because you don't have your latencies dialed in correctly. You're blindly making changes not knowing what you're doing.

Set the scaler to 830cc...do not touch anything else but latencies until you start to get where you want to be.

The reason you're so lean is latency.....period. Has nothing to do with your scaler. Add .1 to lats for every roughly 10% fuel at idle-low loads. If your car is adding 20% start with adding .2 through the entire range (example below).

6-3.5 = 3.7
9-1.03 = 1.05
12-.74 =.76

Also these latencies look like ****. What brand are the injectors? Bosch what? They have multiple types of bosch with different cores. Are they Deatschwerks, Five-O,...

Also you can't take a fresh start correctional value. You must idle until correction has settled after the car is warm. Going rich to lean on start is 100% normal.

/Drunkmann

Last edited by GulfCoastMotorworks; 06-04-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dborne View Post
So if I'm idling , 14v is the one that is going to be the most effective changing in the latency table? And while idling, the fuel pressure will be less then 43psi at which the injectors are tested at. So the injectors would really be around 825cc... That's why it's adding so much corrections at idle when I have te flow scale at 850?
Yes 12-14 is going to be the most applicable under nearly all circumstances.

When idling the fuel pressure will not be less than 43 psi. You're confusing rail pressure with the pressure differential across the injector. The pressure differential across the injector is what matters, and will always be ~43 psi...that's what the FPR's job is. The rail pressure will be less than 43 psi, but that doesn't affect anything but the fuel pump.

The difference between 825 and 850 is minuscule and has nothing to do with your idle corrections. That's a 3% change, you have a >25% error.

At idle, latency dominates the IPW. At WOT, scalar dominates the IPW. Tune each in their respective areas. If you try to tune scalar at idle you're going to get nowhere fast, just like if you try to tune latency at WOT.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:55 PM   #13
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Ok I got it dialed in somewhat. It keeps changing on me and theres no learning corrections, just immediate, well so far. I already made some logs, nothing big enough yet to use, but when I do, how do I make the column to plot the maf voltage changes? This would be in ECUexploer after I log? Or in Romraider while logging?

And my injectors are just Bosch, thats it. I had them for my old 240sx, in retrospect, I probably should have gotten something with more of a name.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #14
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Turns out I'm getting a misfire on cyl. 3. The tabs broken on the coil clip so hopefully that's it. Maybe.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:01 PM   #15
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Well I feel dumb. I guess when I was putting everything together clyinder 3 injectors clip was loose. No more misfires. Hopefully I can get those latencys tuned in with more ease now.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #16
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What are you scaling those injectors to on ECUFLASH? 790cc?
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #17
Dborne
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Right now 830cc.

But if I have the latencys given to me from who sold them to me, can I just use those, then change me maf values? I thought the latencys were mechanical values for the injectors.... My learning view is positive and negative, Ill try to post the numbers later.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #18
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Is it normal for it to idle with -25 af correction without a/c and then went I turn the a/c on, jump all the way to +25 af correction? And then the other day I got te CEL "system too lean" but I have logging and it looks like it's running more rich when I'm driving...
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:11 PM   #19
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No....not in the least.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #20
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Sooo what would that be?
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:09 PM   #21
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Like I said earlier you probably have your latencies/MAF tables all screwy.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:20 AM   #22
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For those who have the similar problem as me, I had a huge vacuum leak. One of the hoses that went to the PCV was completely split I guess when I was installing the motor. It runs like a charm now, with the changes Im making in ecuflash actually doing what I want it to do. Make sure your car is mechanically sound before you even touch the computer.
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