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Old 06-07-2013, 02:34 PM   #26
FaastLegacy
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I'd like to see a more scientific comparison like LL. Different drivers, different track conditions, there are a lot of things that could have skewed these results. This is list is just a consolidation of various results over the years, which makes it suspect.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Tyrmeltr View Post

A great point. It's in that way people will go overkill with sway bars to eliminate body roll without realizing they are losing actual grip. The car turns flatter though, so they assmume it handles better though it might not actually be the case.
That's why I took the advice of Andrewtech and went with just a front sway and endlinks on my car and spent the extra money on control arm bushings for the front and rear instead. The front bar is what needs the most attention on a GR.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by erik11876 View Post
That's why I took the advice of Andrewtech and went with just a front sway and endlinks on my car and spent the extra money on control arm bushings for the front and rear instead. The front bar is what needs the most attention on a GR.
On my car, the rear needed more help, just adding the STi rear bar made a world of difference. Unless of course you like the rear end to not follow the front when cornering, which to me was unnerving after owning a MINI Cooper S.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:28 PM   #29
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I love the wrx taking 3 fords. awesome.
Lol, he failed to include the two fords that beat the Subaru, one being basically just a regular GT with brembo option as well as the other cars above that?
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #30
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On my car, the rear needed more help, just adding the STi rear bar made a world of difference. Unless of course you like the rear end to not follow the front when cornering, which to me was unnerving after owning a MINI Cooper S.
Agreed on all points, the sti rsb helped immensely. No more understeer, unless of course I do it wrong. Then again, I don't race/autox so none of it is all that important.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:15 PM   #31
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Lol, he failed to include the two fords that beat the Subaru, one being basically just a regular GT with brembo option as well as the other cars above that?
That really wasn't my point. The cars the WRX has outrun is impressive given it's very tame suspension. I'm not surprised the Track Pack GT did better given the upgrades for that option. There's no doubt in my mind a WRX with an alignment, $90 STI swaybar, and $600 worth of dampers would be giving the Track Pack Stang a big run for it's money.
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:22 AM   #32
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My understanding is the brz suspension is slightly stiffer and as their long term tester, I believe they put better tires (for a tire test) on it than the prius tires they come with.
I could be mistaken, but I believe reading somewhere that the BRZ and FRS have the exact same rear set up, with the front being sliiightly softer in the BRZ for better daily commuting than the FRS. Interesting that this plays out as an advantage though over the FRS. Again I could be very wrong. I'll try to find where I read that....
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:21 AM   #33
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I could be mistaken, but I believe reading somewhere that the BRZ and FRS have the exact same rear set up, with the front being sliiightly softer in the BRZ for better daily commuting than the FRS. Interesting that this plays out as an advantage though over the FRS. Again I could be very wrong. I'll try to find where I read that....
No, BRZ has "sport tuned suspension" not found in the Frs or gt86.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:11 PM   #34
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My mistake.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:33 PM   #35
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Very surprising but nice to see.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:45 PM   #36
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i canonly imagine the v6 mushtang with the ecu flashed to remove the 112mph speed limiter which, iirc, it was hitting for 20+ seconds/lap in that test

yeah
These guys would disagree with you. There is a reason there is a 112mph limiter. Take the limiter off and you might not even make it around the track.





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Old 06-08-2013, 03:53 PM   #37
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Frightening. Still don't understand why Ford cheaper out on the DS on the V6 Stangs. I also don't know why people keep pushing these cars past 120mph knowing the DS can't handle it. It will fail. Period.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:57 PM   #38
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Frightening. Still don't understand why Ford cheaper out on the DS on the V6 Stangs. I also don't know why people keep pushing these cars past 120mph knowing the DS can't handle it. It will fail. Period.
Not 100% sure but I'm sure it probably has to do with if you want a performance mustang buy a gt type thing.

Kind of the same thing as the wrx vs sti. If you want something that isn't going to blow transmissions and can handle brake temps buy an sti not a wrx.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:59 PM   #39
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Dive shaft failure at those speeds could be extremely fatal causing the car to flip. If you look at muscle track cars you'll see the smart ones have drive shaft cages.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:25 PM   #40
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Dive shaft failure at those speeds could be extremely fatal causing the car to flip. If you look at muscle track cars you'll see the smart ones have drive shaft cages.


Extremely fatal? as in more than just a little fatal?

"muscle track cars" have driveshaft loops because they are one piece and usually fairly heavy duty. They could potentially flip the car if the front fails and catapults. The flimsy two piece driveshafts found in most modern cars and the v6 mustang buckle and/or explode with very little potential to flip the car.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:52 PM   #41
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Extremely fatal? as in more than just a little fatal?

"muscle track cars" have driveshaft loops because they are one piece and usually fairly heavy duty. They could potentially flip the car if the front fails and catapults. The flimsy two piece driveshafts found in most modern cars and the v6 mustang buckle and/or explode with very little potential to flip the car.
Lol. My mind must have been elsewhere. Should have said "extremely hazardous"
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #42
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The V6 Mustang breaking driveshaft thing....is really freaking scary. o.o
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by FaastLegacy View Post
I'd like to see a more scientific comparison like LL. Different drivers, different track conditions, there are a lot of things that could have skewed these results. This is list is just a consolidation of various results over the years, which makes it suspect.
I respectfully disagree with your statement.

Here is a link to the motortrend streets of willow lap times: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...bsts_take.html

Same driver, Randy Pobst. Same 1.55 mile configuration, all runs in the dry. Would it be ideal to have a super mega test on the same day with the same temperatures? Sure. Are the results still valid and be used for comparison purposes? Sure. Otherwise, the car and driver lightning lap results wouldn't be a basis for comparison. And all the Nurburgring lap times would go out the window too.

Thoughts on Car and Driver at VIR vs Motortrend at Streets of Willow. The Streets is a tighter configuration that favors the WRX's awd handling more. On top of that, Randy Pobst is a professional race car driver that came up through the ranks via autocross and production car racing. He can drive a production car to 100% of it's limits. The enthusiasts over at car and driver, while competent, cannot extract 100% of the WRX/STI's potential in the corners, thus the high hp cars do better in the Car and Driver test. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:52 PM   #44
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I guess my point to the thread was that so many on here assume since the GR WRX does lean a bit in turns and tetter fore/aft that it means the car doesn't handle well. That's really not the case. I won't argue that the perceived handling doesn't feel that exceptional, but once the chassis settles, it sticks pretty well and the AWD traction let's you dig in and dig out....in a hamfisted kind of a way.

Just an alignment and better shocks will make the car that much better. Bigger/better brakes are certainly needed for longer courses. I won't argue that. Big brakes for autox and normal daily driving? IMO, a waste of money and possibly worse braking.
Totally true. Probably the best bang for the buck mod is replacing the stock pads and rotors for something like DBAs (or equivalent) and some nice street/autox pads. I love the Hawk HPS and HP+ pads and DBA rotors on my cars. This combo is especially great at mountain carving and canyon blasting (at least for me). I'm sure other combos are similar like Ferodos, EBC, etc
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:52 PM   #45
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People looking for scientific research to rub in people's faces by citing a magazine test seems kinda silly. LL, Willow Springs, it's all the same - selling magazines, not furthering science.

It's good to see it, of course - it's just silly to gloat about it as if there's some kind of victory in it. If you like how a car drives, enjoy it. Quoting from a magazine about how your car is better than another makes me think you don't really know much about driving.
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:54 PM   #46
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I love the Hawk HPS and HP+ pads and DBA rotors on my cars.
I love the HP+ pads I swapped my stockers out with along with some Motul race brake fluid. Especially coming from track cooked pads and boiled fluid. The cold bite is really good, and once warmed up it's excellent. Definitely a little noisy at drive through speeds and more dust, but hey that's how it goes with good pads.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:14 AM   #47
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People looking for scientific research to rub in people's faces by citing a magazine test seems kinda silly. LL, Willow Springs, it's all the same - selling magazines, not furthering science.

It's good to see it, of course - it's just silly to gloat about it as if there's some kind of victory in it. If you like how a car drives, enjoy it. Quoting from a magazine about how your car is better than another makes me think you don't really know much about driving.
Stating facts and having enthusiasm makes someone look less knowledgeable?

This is nothing new.
Ford and chevy still do it to this day. Racing improves cars and product. How does that saying go... win on sunday, sell on monday.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by manticus View Post
People looking for scientific research to rub in people's faces by citing a magazine test seems kinda silly. LL, Willow Springs, it's all the same - selling magazines, not furthering science.

It's good to see it, of course - it's just silly to gloat about it as if there's some kind of victory in it. If you like how a car drives, enjoy it. Quoting from a magazine about how your car is better than another makes me think you don't really know much about driving.
I guess I don't get where you're coming from. I've autoxed and drag raced cars since about 1998 and probably know more about "cars" than 99.5% on this forum. Motor Trend uses the same driver and track for each of the their tests and track conditions are extremely consistent. All this reduces as much bias as possible. These are fairly legit numbers which show how a WRX compares against it's competition and other performance cars, many of which are more expensive.

How else is one to evaluate something without testing it and putting some sort ranking or testing data to it? When shopping around, don't you want to get the best bang for your buck rather than getting some glitzy dud? You need measurements to evaluate if what you've done to the car is really an improvement. Sure, you need to like other aspects of the car as well, but most of us want something that's a solid performer.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:36 PM   #49
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mustang owners... hahahahahhaa
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:19 AM   #50
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I guess I don't get where you're coming from. I've autoxed and drag raced cars since about 1998 and probably know more about "cars" than 99.5% on this forum....
so if you took a sample of 1000 people on nasioc, you know more about cars than 990 people? that's a lot.
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