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Old 06-11-2013, 01:12 PM   #26
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And I said even if you totally ignore the pre purchase emissions the article has some interesting bits and pieces.

My favorite is how not one single Tesla owner is getting anywhere near the mileage claimed it would. CR did not get close either. Nor did the NYT.

The Tesla has been facing a media that wants to love it for what it represents, which means they often overlook technical shortcomings that involve...GASP... math.

As for your point about those who rely on pure solar and wind. Great. Remind me what percentage of electricity in the country is pure solar and wind as compared to coal or other fossil fuels? Plus I am not sure how you live with yourself using wind, with it killing all those eagles every day. Shame!

If the country had to rely on solar and wind we would simple not exist. They are not very good as producing the massive amount of energy we need. They are a great idea, but they have not been fully realized.

Like I said the article is mostly useful, but not totally. I am smart enough to weed through what is anti green BS and what is not. Hell I love anti green articles, but you have to read them with as much caution as pro green articles. There is an agenda. Both are laced with facts, and half truths.

All are worth reading, and usually there are facts that can be taken from either. To discredit every single talking point is narrow minded and small.

I do not really care what you think personally. But seeing real tesla owners post stats on lacking range inefficient home charging, etc, is refreshing as this is real data people should know
See that is the difference between us (and I hope not the only one).....if I read an article and it's noticeable that the author is omitting pertinent data, has an agenda, etc, well I'm going to dismiss it. Get your facts straight and have another go.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:56 PM   #27
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THen you would ignore just about every single thing every spoken from the White House, Senate House, Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post, BBC, etc.

Nobody is without an agenda. If you dismiss everything with an agenda, then you may as well read 2nd grade phonics books and stop there.

Your hopes are met, we are nothing alike. I live in reality.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:23 AM   #28
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I saw Tesla cars at a local shopping mall where they had a display. It is an impressive car especially if they build the entire body. The cost to build this car in the low production numbers is certainly prohibitive. But I guess that's on the taxpayer. They actually fit a 3rd row of seats rear facing in the car.IMHO electric cars will fail as they did in early 20th century and again in J. Carter years when he gave a big push to them. Most don't even remember they failed so badly. So much for histories lessons.

4th Gear: Automakers Being Forced To Sell Electric Cars

The Electric Car Is Being Forced On UsExpand

States want people to buy electric cars, so they set regulations that say a certain percentage of cars sold must be zero emissions. The people that live in these states don't necessarily want to buy electric cars. Automakers don't necessarily want to spend the exorbitant funds to develop a car nobody will buy.

But too bad they have to.

Here's an example. Right now, California, New York, and New Jersey are requiring that zero emission cars become 15 percent of new car sales by 2025. That doesn't sound bad, but then you look at the numbers that are being sold right now. Honda has sold a total of 83 of its electric Fit. TOTAL. Their goal was 1,100 sales over two years. That's not close to any percent. Right now, of the 6.4 million cars sold this year so far, one third of one percent have been electric. That's nothing.

Automakers don't need to freak out quite yet, but if consumer attitudes towards electric cars don't change soon, then we could be facing situations where automakers that don't sell electric vehicles might have to pull out of certain states in the coming decade. I sincerely doubt something like that will happen, but it isn't totally out of the realm of possibility.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:26 AM   #29
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Then it would be in their best interest to start investing in Honda public charging stations, and the like. The cars can be practical, but they need widely accessible and VISIBLE public infrastructure that is NOT supplied by the government.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:50 AM   #30
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IMHO electric cars will fail as they did in early 20th century and again in J. Carter years when he gave a big push to them.
keep telling yourself that.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:10 PM   #31
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I really appreciate it when people make it obvious enough to be ignored.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:25 PM   #32
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Drove one of these on Saturday. Holy hell I want one. Massive wallop of power when you step on it, and at any speed. It pulls just as hard from 60-100 as it does from 0-60. Handling is awesome. You can feel that it's a big car, but because all the weight is so low (center of gravity is only 16 inches off the ground), and it has a 50-50 weight distribution, it still feels really nimble. The interior is sumptuous. The adjustable suspension is pretty cool to watch from the outside. The touchscreen is actually really intuitive and smooth, and I'm not usually a fan of them. Overall, I simply fell in love. It's efficient when you want it to be, and bonkers powerful when want to hoon it up. So much want...
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:06 PM   #33
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Drove one of these on Saturday. Holy hell I want one. Massive wallop of power when you step on it, and at any speed. It pulls just as hard from 60-100 as it does from 0-60. Handling is awesome. You can feel that it's a big car, but because all the weight is so low (center of gravity is only 16 inches off the ground), and it has a 50-50 weight distribution, it still feels really nimble. The interior is sumptuous. The adjustable suspension is pretty cool to watch from the outside. The touchscreen is actually really intuitive and smooth, and I'm not usually a fan of them. Overall, I simply fell in love. It's efficient when you want it to be, and bonkers powerful when want to hoon it up. So much want...
During your test drive you caused more damage to Earth than Chernobyl and cost US taxpayers more than $216 million.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:59 PM   #34
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:24 PM   #35
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I barely skimmed the article above, but I noticed that they are comparing a Honda Civic to a Tesla Model S. Why not compare it to a BMW 7 Series, an Audi A7 or a Mercedes S class? Much more direct comparison.

FWIW, I had dinner the other night with a Model S owner. He drove it from his vacation home in Sonoma to his primary home in San Diego in one day utilizing Tesla's "supercharger" charging stations on I-5. He loves the car, and cross shopped all three of the vehicles I mentioned above. Nobody who buys a Tesla is considering a Civic.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:41 PM   #36
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Agreed, the comparison is lame. I would take the A7 over any of them.
They are in a honeymoon period right now of the supply stations probably outnumber the number of users for that particular location. What if the supercharger station has 6 cars in line before him. The folks who buy cars like a Model S are not the types that want to wait, or be made to question their decision.

Need WAAAY more charging stations if these toys will make it to the mainstream.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #37
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Agreed, the comparison is lame. I would take the A7 over any of them.
You are such a VAG fanboi now.. if your R takes a dump on you I'll expect you to make a full recovery.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #38
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Agreed, the comparison is lame. I would take the A7 over any of them.
They are in a honeymoon period right now of the supply stations probably outnumber the number of users for that particular location. What if the supercharger station has 6 cars in line before him. The folks who buy cars like a Model S are not the types that want to wait, or be made to question their decision.

Need WAAAY more charging stations if these toys will make it to the mainstream.
It will not work. The charge times even with super charger are excessive, and the upstream infrastructure and on vehicle modifications to allow even faster charging will be prohibitively expensive. (You have to oversize the thermal management system on the car or buy way more expensive cells, and you need new distribution infrastructure).
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:17 PM   #39
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You are such a VAG fanboi now.. if your R takes a dump on you I'll expect you to make a full recovery.
I think you mean WHEN my R takes a dump....

And I am only keeping my R until I can drive the new STI or the supposedly intriguing 2015 Legacy GT.

Until, I will bide my time in my nazi car.

And if I do not like any of them..

I will bite the bullet and get a Jaguar XFR

I can keep my manual driving addiction fed with the Datsun
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:54 PM   #40
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It will not work. The charge times even with super charger are excessive,
Half an hour does not seem excessive to me. But I also think that most of these buyers are using the Tesla as a commuter and their Range Rover for road trips. Electric cars are currently for relatively wealthy households with at least two vehicles. This could pave the way for more affordable electric cars and will definitely beta test the technology.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #41
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anyone know how many ports are available at each supercharger station? With the extensive spread of the SC network and if they do have 4-6 ports at each station I dont see there being much of an issue of waiting after someone has just plugged in.

At least not with the numbers of Teslas being around 25k units a year.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:52 PM   #42
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I keep hearing different numbers of Teslas' sold. Is there an unbiased source for sales...

never mind I will look myself...it is my question after all.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:39 PM   #43
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I keep hearing different numbers of Teslas' sold. Is there an unbiased source for sales...

never mind I will look myself...it is my question after all.
http://www.hybridcars.com/2013-leaf-...lagging-tesla/

http://www.benzinga.com/news/13/06/3...td-model-s-sal

http://gm-volt.com/2013/06/04/volt-t...ind-this-year/
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:27 PM   #44
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I barely skimmed the article above, but I noticed that they are comparing a Honda Civic to a Tesla Model S. Why not compare it to a BMW 7 Series, an Audi A7 or a Mercedes S class? Much more direct comparison..
This. Luxury cars may well be more wasteful by a solid order of magnitude as compared to econoboxes, I'd wager, when their development and production are taken into account along with the use phase.

That the Model S is in the ballpark of a Civic in life cycle CO2 production even when on straight up Cali grid power is amazing. Use clean power (eg Seattle Green Up) and it pulls farther ahead, even when using the inaccurate econobox as the reference.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:41 PM   #45
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It will not work. The charge times even with super charger are excessive, and the upstream infrastructure and on vehicle modifications to allow even faster charging will be prohibitively expensive. (You have to oversize the thermal management system on the car or buy way more expensive cells, and you need new distribution infrastructure).
20 minutes for 200 miles of charge. That gives you something like 7 hours of highway cruise with one 20 minute stop... and it's free. This is happening now.

I fail to see what you guys don't find obvious about this. Perhaps you need a flashing GAME OVER.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #46
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My God can you say one thing without losing credibility for yourself.

200 miles gives 7 hours of highway cruising...Stop the blatant fanboy lying!!!!!

I almost want Tesla to succeed at times then you talk and I it send me back to a hatred spiral.

and it is not FREE somebody is paying for it. You must be a democrat....
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:05 PM   #47
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My God can you say one thing without losing credibility for yourself.

200 miles gives 7 hours of highway cruising...Stop the blatant fanboy lying!!!!!

I almost want Tesla to succeed at times then you talk and I it send me back to a hatred spiral.

and it is not FREE somebody is paying for it. You must be a democrat....
Oh really? Ok genius, calculate for me how many hours of driving YOU would get if you left your house with a full charge in a 85kWh Model S and stopped once at a supercharger after driving 200 miles. A 9th grade education should have prepared you for this word problem, assuming you made it that far.

Show your work or no credit.

*edit the conservative (har har har) number was _9.1_ hours of drive time. But I'm not driving 55 mph.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:08 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
My God can you say one thing without losing credibility for yourself.

200 miles gives 7 hours of highway cruising...Stop the blatant fanboy lying!!!!!

I almost want Tesla to succeed at times then you talk and I it send me back to a hatred spiral.

and it is not FREE somebody is paying for it. You must be a democrat....


Do you not read what you type before clicking 'Submit Reply'?
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:31 PM   #49
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I think scrappy incorrectly (and I really hope this isnt representative of NASA) assumed 7 hrs for 200 miles.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:35 PM   #50
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I think scrappy incorrectly (and I really hope this isnt representative of NASA) assumed 7 hrs for 200 miles.
No if he was representing NASA he would have read miles as kilometers and crashed a $330 million spacecraft into mars...
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