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Old 06-23-2013, 01:14 PM   #76
SCRAPPYDO
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THat audi has a big tank!!!!

HAHAHA

Cool movie. Now how far can the audi drive on 19-20 gallons of gas? How far can the Tesla go on one battery?
Smoke and mirrors. Half truths, etc.

This is good tech for Tesla owners, and they should consider themselves lucky if they happen to have one near them and everywhere they want to go.


If all you use your tesla for is short trips or trips confined to supercharger locations, this is pretty nifty to have around.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:24 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
1) Drive a Model S. An anti-tesla view will face some serious doubts once you actually get to touch the car & feel its engineering.
2) Yes the car itself is made in the USA, with batteries from Panasonic. Is every other car sold in the U.S. actually made here & fueled with US sourced gas? Probably not.
3) The govt loan has been repaid, so "Thanks for the jump start Mr. Govt, we'll handle the rest of this race."
4) Ummm, battery swapping - Tesla Model S - Battery Swap HD Official - YouTube
5) I'd put up my own car as a bet to show that the majority of seeking alpha anti Tesla submissions are by those who have shorts against TSLA stock.
I was invited to all of their pre-game parties and have driven it. The Tesla is a POS compared to the gas-powered competition. There is no objective reason to buy it.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:39 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post

I was invited to all of their pre-game parties and have driven it. The Tesla is a POS compared to the gas-powered competition. There is no objective reason to buy it.
By what metric?
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:44 PM   #79
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Not sure if serious?

The model S is getting awesome reviews, everyone that's purchased one seems to be ecstatic about the purchase with minimal,if any, negative owner reviews.

I think you're the only person I've heard call it a POS.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:00 PM   #80
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bravo E. Nick. bravo.

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Old 06-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
Couple of things. (I have no patience to watch or listen to video so just skipped to the end of the fueling and noticed 23gallon fill up at 3mins +)

What sort of piss poor gas pump was that one, in that it took over 3 minutes to pump 23 gallons of gas?

Most of the ones I have used (granted I rarely use them) are the 9.7GPM variety. so 23 gallons would take about 2:20 not 3:00 +.

at 20mpg for the Audi that means you go 460m before having to stop again.

At 270 for the Tesla you need to stop at least once maybe even twice if we are doing a refill and travelling north of 460m.

SO not to detract from the awesomeness of the battery swap but it seems like a very biased video / presentation (duh).
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:26 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post


bravo E. Nick. bravo.

He really believes this, and has called Model Ss the modern Toyota Camry of his (oontzy no doubt) neighborhood. I can see some validity in his criticisms of the interior compared to the current high end luxury sedans.

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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post

Couple of things. (I have no patience to watch or listen to video so just skipped to the end of the fueling and noticed 23gallon fill up at 3mins +)

What sort of piss poor gas pump was that one, in that it took over 3 minutes to pump 23 gallons of gas?

Most of the ones I have used (granted I rarely use them) are the 9.7GPM variety. so 23 gallons would take about 2:20 not 3:00 +.

at 20mpg for the Audi that means you go 460m before having to stop again.

At 270 for the Tesla you need to stop at least once maybe even twice if we are doing a refill and travelling north of 460m.

SO not to detract from the awesomeness of the battery swap but it seems like a very biased video / presentation (duh).
Elon did say they use a 10 gal/min pump. Not all time is actually spent pumping. There's the getting out of car, setting up transaction and other time sinks that add up to a minute or so. More telling is the 22 gallons, especially since that could have been diesel into an A8 TDI that gets 35 mpg freeway or whatever.

Whether the math lines up perfectly in the comparison isn't a huge concern, though. The point is that Tesla will offer free, time consuming but not ridiculous charging on the road via 120 kW Superchargers, or a $60-80 battery swap that's at least on the same order of magnitude as gas pumps in terms of energy imparted per time spent. That choice will put the Model X high on my list for a future vehicle a few years down the road, assuming the Supercharger rollout progresses per plan.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:38 PM   #83
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thanks for helping out and answering my questions Shik!
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:23 AM   #84
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I don't know about this 10gal/min pump thing I was looking into this recently trying to calculate the time spent refueling, but frankly it seems like almost all are supposedly ranked about that, but my personal experience filling up seems to be slower.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:36 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
I don't know about this 10gal/min pump thing I was looking into this recently trying to calculate the time spent refueling, but frankly it seems like almost all are supposedly ranked about that, but my personal experience filling up seems to be slower.
If it was over 6gpm you yinzers wouldnt be able to keep up.

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:51 AM   #86
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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2421605,00.asp
"You know," the critics say as though they were giving me the Good News, "hybrids and electric vehicles aren't really that good for the environment." As a Prius driver, I hear this all the time from the gas-guzzlers out there who seem to be insecure about owning their polluting automobiles.

"Really?" I say before going into a rant about how amazing it was last summer to drive from buddy's wedding at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden to Richmond, Virginia, without having to fuel up once. "I hate buying gas," I say, "for environmental and financial reasons."

I feel insecure too, though, because what I really want is a Chevy Volt, a Nissan Leaf, or a Tesla Model S, all of which are all-electric vehicles (EVs).

Although the U.S. market is lagging in EV adoption, there has still been a dramatic increase. Almost three times as many Chevy Volts were sold in 2012 as in 2011. The Model S sold 2,400 cars between August and December 2012 and first quarter numbers show that the Model S is beating out similarly price gasoline-powered cars from Mercedes, BMW, and Audi.

This is, as you see, big business. Right now Johnson Controls, General Motors, and LG Chemical all have projects related to creating batteries, specifically cell production and pack assembly. These facilities are mostly centered in the Midwest, the traditional home of the automotive industry. Electric giant Schneider Electric has started manufacturing two versions of home charging stations: one designed to pull from the grid and another that is a solar system. Schneider even offers courses on the basics of e-vehicles as part of a "content marketing" approach to creating the "thought infrastructure" needed to increase demand. One of the biggest markets for their teachings is in China.

In America we are starting to see EVs crop up in both public and private fleets. There are more plug-in locations, and state and local agencies are now working out the issues of grid integration, permitting, siting, and signage.

"You know," those same critics say, "plug-ins will put a strain on the grid and simply force us to build more coal and nuclear plants. But that's not all, you know. The batteries pose a serious recycling problem; they're made of really bad stuff."

Disputing the idea that more demand for EVs will create more demand for coal- and nuclear-fired power, the Sierra Club has stated:

Studies have shown that electric vehicle owners will largely charge their vehicles at night when there is plenty of capacity on the grid.

As to the question of the disposal of batteries, the Sierra Club offers this:

Internal combustion engine vehicles use lead-acid batteries, and their recycle rate is about 98% in the US. The newer batteries for electric vehicles, such as those made of lithium-ion, include even more valuable and recyclable metals and will have a life well beyond the vehicle.

Recently, Nissan also unveiled a $100-per-month battery replacement program. Essentially, there will be a market for the newer batteries just like there is for the current ones.

"Whether electric cars are dirtier than gas cars misses the point entirely," says Diallo Shabazz, managing director of Radical Ideas and North American regional representative of the United Nations Environment Programme. "We need to stop thinking in one-dimensional ways and instead embrace more holistic approaches."

Basically, it's complicated. Most of our electricity comes from coal. Despite the destructive manner in which it is extracted from mountaintops, we are heavily reliant on it as a source of our long-term energy needs. EVs only further muddle an already convoluted energy future.

Then there is the grid itself. The 2003 blackout exposed a troublesome truth: our electricity infrastructure is in need of a major overhaul. That is why there have been calls for a "smart" grid, that feeds more data into the system so we actually know what is going on. There are even calls for more distributed energy delivery systems that create energy districts that generate their own electricity on a smaller scale using renewables.
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