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Old 06-11-2013, 07:40 PM   #1
jaov2k
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Default First helmet and other stuff pre first time track

to horribly ghetto for HPDE1?

Amazon.com: Small FSA-2 Snell SA2010 Auto Full Face White Helmet by Zamp: AutomotiveAmazon.com: Small FSA-2 Snell SA2010 Auto Full Face White Helmet by Zamp: Automotive


any other suggestions for additional safety gear? Is a HANS overkill? I just want to be safe. I plan to wear jeans, a nomex shirt, not sure about gloves, a pair of Converse "Chucks" All-Stars Hightop because they're the only nonsynthetic/leather shoe I own. Sunglasses... that's about all I can think of regarding personal gear...

To the car I plan to upgrade the pads to AX6 or XP8, SS lines, and fluid to ATE Super Blue or Motul...

The stock wheels I want to replace with RPF1's/BFG Rivals only because I don't know if the stock wheels are up for the challenge and wouldn't want to replace an axle early on. Does anyone know if 16x9" is ok for stock rotors and calipers?

Just trying to get track ready in next couple months. I want to participate at Buttonwillow at the end of July through Speedventures.

Thanks guys.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:27 PM   #2
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Helmets fine.

-Yes a HANS is overkill and you'd need to run a full harness to do that anyway.
-For a track day, I run gloves only because my hands sweat.
-Flush the fluid at least, I use ATE, but either is good.
-Since its your first event, I wouldn't worry about pads.

Don't blow your money just yet on wheels and tires. The stock ones are just fine your first couple times out.

Since your new to the track, just know that your car is much more capable than you are at this point. You should just focus on learning the line, your braking points, and being smooth and consistant.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:22 PM   #3
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Helmets fine.

-Yes a HANS is overkill and you'd need to run a full harness to do that anyway.
-For a track day, I run gloves only because my hands sweat.
-Flush the fluid at least, I use ATE, but either is good.
-Since its your first event, I wouldn't worry about pads.

Don't blow your money just yet on wheels and tires. The stock ones are just fine your first couple times out.

Since your new to the track, just know that your car is much more capable than you are at this point. You should just focus on learning the line, your braking points, and being smooth and consistant.
Thanks for the reply, Dan. It gives the budget a bit of time to spread out. I was sweating the wheels and tires a bit.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:22 PM   #4
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There are options for HANS type safety without a rollcage/harness system. However, for your first track days/year, you should concentrate on learning the track and driving it safely. Speed will come later.

If you are wearing a Nomex shirt, why not get get Gloves and Shoes? When I bought my gear, the Nomex undershirt was actually the most expensive item. The clothes you wear should be selected to increase your chance of avoiding time in a burn unit. Wearing one Nomex item isnt going to protect your whole body. You're better off buying an inexpensive Nomex suit than a single shirt.

I'd get a pair of Nomex gloves or at least decent leather gloves with grippy palms (your hands will get sweaty on the wheel).

The "tennis" shoes will leave your feet aching by day's end. A driving shoe is stiffer and provides support for pushing the pedals all day. Not so great for walking.

For your eyewear, the helmet link shows it comes with darker shades. If you are running in the summer, get the darkest tint you can. If you wear eyeglasses, be sure they are safety glass type or polycarbonate (took a rock chip at 130mph to my polycarbonate eyeglasses...it left a nice gouge in the lens and a bruise from the nose piece).

Agree with advice on brakes & tires. If everything is in good condition (pads at 50% or more left, fluid is good color), let it be. If you get hooked, you'll be spending money quick enough.

A fast driver in a slow car will always be faster than a slow driver in fast car. Learn to drive your car (as much OEM as possible) fast, then upgrade one component at a time. When you upgrade to your next track car, you'll be much faster right away.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPKLegacy View Post
If you are wearing a Nomex shirt, why not get get Gloves and Shoes?
This. After your head, your hands and feet are the two most important things to protect from fire. You need your hands to unbuckle and escape, and you need your feet to run. That is advice given to me when I first got interested in track days, and although fires are extremely rare, people tend to panic, so a little extra insurance is worth it IMO, especially with how cheaply you can get some basic gloves and socks.

I would try to go somewhere that you can try a helmet on before just buying one, unless you get it from somewhere that has a return policy to allow for sizing adjustments without having a lot of extra cost. But helmets are different shapes, too, not just different overall sizes, like our heads.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:49 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the info guys.

A coworker took me to the Simpson shop here in SoCal. I purchased a regular helmet "voyager" sa2010 (i tried it on all the sizes l, m ,s) and a jacket. Got a great deal. After reading the comments ill probably go back and get the suit. The basic single layer black one.

They had some smokin hot deals on the gloves and shoes, and I would have purchased them but they didn't have my size in shoes. I still have a couple of months prior to the event so ill checkin with them to see if my size is available. Considering the discount I have a hard time paying $150 for items that are being sold for $50. If I get close to the event and still no availability then ill have to suck it up and pay the full price.

Other than that, my auto upgrade anxiety has curved a bit with the purchase of the safety items. I'm really excited about going to button willow and finally having some fun.

The car has less than 10k miles since I bought it in Jan of 2012, I don't commute much. So the parts should still be good for a couple of events, I'm guessing. Ill find out more after I actually track it and maybe talk to folks out there with more experience.

Thanks everyone.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:16 PM   #7
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generally speaking, risk is lower in the lower run groups because the speeds are so much slower and most people don't drive anywhere near the limit yet. so, you shouldn't need to go with a full fire suit in a street car for your first HPDEs (unless you actually have flammable fluids coming into the cabin). Then you'll be able to figure out when you're ready for one after you've done some days and know how hot it gets without a suit. I still advocate gloves and socks/shoes because they're not going to make me uncomfortable, and they add some of the most critical protection just in case the worst of the worst happens.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jaov2k View Post
A coworker took me to the Simpson shop here in SoCal. I purchased a regular helmet "voyager" sa2010 (i tried it on all the sizes l, m ,s) and a jacket. Got a great deal. After reading the comments ill probably go back and get the suit. The basic single layer black one.
Single layer black? Is that the carbonx? Try to find an outer color that is lighter in color (silver or white). The black one will bake you in the sun. If you wear a suit, get a silk long sleeve undershirt (it will protect your skin from the suit). Note: the suit is probably overkill for your first event, however, safety first is always a good idea.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:17 AM   #9
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Safety items are always a good idea. Maybe a bit overkill for first time HPDE, but if you can swing it, it's a good thing.

As for car, I think the tires are definitely not needed for a first time. I would however recommend upgrading the brakes. Something like XP8's up front and some good fluid would be enough. Stock pads and fluid just can't take it. I've had quite a few first time students that did nothing to the brakes, and had issues later in the event as they got faster and pushed the car more. Like the safety equipment it may be a little overkill for a first time, but it's something you DON'T want to have to worry about. Plus you'll learn more if you're not worried about cooking the brakes the whole time.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:09 AM   #10
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button willow was my first track day too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMDan View Post
-Since its your first event, I wouldn't worry about pads.
My pads failed me going into the "sunset" turn at 110mph. I went and did some donuts in the infield and filled my car with dust, it was pretty sweet!
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:03 AM   #11
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How exactly did your pads "fail you"? Were they more than 50% when you started the day? Did you bleed the brakes?
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:51 PM   #12
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Safety items are always a good idea. Maybe a bit overkill for first time HPDE, but if you can swing it, it's a good thing.

As for car, I think the tires are definitely not needed for a first time. I would however recommend upgrading the brakes. Something like XP8's up front and some good fluid would be enough. Stock pads and fluid just can't take it. I've had quite a few first time students that did nothing to the brakes, and had issues later in the event as they got faster and pushed the car more. Like the safety equipment it may be a little overkill for a first time, but it's something you DON'T want to have to worry about. Plus you'll learn more if you're not worried about cooking the brakes the whole time.
I'm pretty convinced I going to do a pads/lines/fluid replacement prior to the event. I still have bad memories of the "dragons tail" on stock pads/lines getting nonresponsive and the fear creeping in. I don't want something like that ever becoming an issue. Ruins the mood.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:49 PM   #13
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How exactly did your pads "fail you"? Were they more than 50% when you started the day? Did you bleed the brakes?
The pads got too hot and just stoped stopping. I know it was the pads because the pedal felt fine, and they were like 80% left. Just bad pads, I have bluestuff on now.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:39 PM   #14
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So how is a fire suit worn? By this I mean, do people have regular clothes under them? I've seen FR underwear, but what is worn under that if anything? Do you go commando?! Is the personal safety list, helmet, fr head sock, fr gloves, fr socks, fr shoes, fr underwear, and fire suit, ideally?

How do you layer fr gear, I guess is the question.

Do I hang my tidy-whities on my antenna while I'm wearing the fr underwear? Lol.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaov2k View Post
So how is a fire suit worn? By this I mean, do people have regular clothes under them? I've seen FR underwear, but what is worn under that if anything? Do you go commando?! Is the personal safety list, helmet, fr head sock, fr gloves, fr socks, fr shoes, fr underwear, and fire suit, ideally?

How do you layer fr gear, I guess is the question.

Do I hang my tidy-whities on my antenna while I'm wearing the fr underwear? Lol.
I applaud you. I didnt have the courage to ask, so waited until my pit crew was there. With 2 smart-ass pit chiefs on hand, I got lots of helpful suggestions.

Ideally you wear FR everything. Each layer is approximately 10 sec of escape time. Unless its freezing out (<50), you going to be sweating like a stuck pig within minutes of suiting up.

I wear silk long underwear (REI sells this, or you can visit Victoria Secret to add some lace). I just wear the top, however, in a hot climate, I'd wear the bottoms, too. The silk should be the lightest they have, very sheer/seethru.

Put on each layer set, overlapping tops and bottoms as you go. Where there is a gap, around your middle, you want to be sure your skin is well covered. If your skin is not covered, its not protected.

For SoCal, the silk long underwear with the Firesuit would be adequate. If you wanted to be uber-safe, you wear FR long underwear top & bottoms. You can wear regular underwear under the bottoms, preferably a dark color so no one knows how scared you got. You're looking for as much FR & natural fibers as you can, as they are more resistant to bonding to your skin when heated.

When you get done with a session, strip off everything, even the silk and hang it in the breeze/sun to dry. If you don't have an EZ-UP tent (4 posts and a cover), find a sporting goods store ($80-100) and get one with straight legs. Bring some housing bricks or 25lb weights to keep it in your area. If you're really shy, hang a couple of sheet from the tent awning and strip there.

If you really want to spend big money, get a cool shirt, tank, and pump. It pump cool water thru tubes in the shirt. Does wonders for your core temp on a hot day. About $500 for a ready to go system. I dont have that, so put my dried silk top in the drink cooler. That lasts until the first lap is completed, or so.

Bring gatorade and lots of water. Energy drinks are sugar and don't help. Wearing a FR suit will cause you to sweat more. Drink a large cup of gatorade as soon as you get off track and eat something. Then keep up your water intake. If you get thirsty, you're already behind. If you're smart, you'll get in the shade or someone's trailer and hydrate before going on track again.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:24 PM   #16
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The pads got too hot and just stoped stopping. I know it was the pads because the pedal felt fine, and they were like 80% left. Just bad pads, I have bluestuff on now.
Not bad pads, just poor use of equipment. If you overheat the pads, they will glaze and fade. You need to let them cool off, then rebed them, and they'll be fine.

If you find your pads fading (and everything else was ok), take an easy lap with minimal to no braking to let them cool off.

When braking you want to get on them, slow the car to the correct speed, and then get off. If your foot is on the brakes for a long period of time, you'll overheat them quickly.

As many ppl want the quick initial bite, because its a "safer" feeling, they never use more than first inch of travel. When doing high performance driving you want to use everything to its fullest, including your brakes.

Your braking force should be 6,6,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 (where 10 is max and 1 is just barely brushing it). This will minimize braking time & heating time, and maximize braking force. If you have an inside camera, mount it behind you so your knees are visible (use a contrasting tape patch if it helps). Drive your laps. Then watch how much time your right leg spends on the pedal. If you have a datalogger that measures g-force, use RaceRender2 to match the datalogger to the video. You'll be able to see how much time you spend decelerating. Based on completely anecdotal data, beginning drivers (if you're not logging/videoing, you're a beginner) spend alot of time on the brakes.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:42 PM   #17
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I wear normal boxers then FR everything else, socks too. If it's like any HPDE i've been to, you will be the ONLY one wearing FR gear.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:17 PM   #18
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Definitely change out the brake fluid so it won't boil up and if you do get SS lines even better! Stick with the wheels/tires you have now, once you feel comfortable and you think you have pushed those tires to there limits then maybe then it will be a good idea for a new set up.

I would also recommend upgrading the radiator if you still have the OEM one and possibly look into getting an oil cooler. Mocal got's a good deal on oil coolers kit.

Have fun and good luck!
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:15 PM   #19
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I've been successful tracking my 07 STI with RBF600 and HP+. After 9-ish events, I'm stepping up to some Hawk DTC pads. I suppose I don't use my brakes as much as I should, but I think I'm doing decently with what I have (street tires for reference).
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #20
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Wow! Thanks for all that wonderful info, guys! Especially NPK for not flaming me and speaking openly about a the underwear subject. It really isn't that obvious of a topic, especially for a new novice, yet so important.

I might look silly out there and maybe get mocked, but at least ill be a safe fool. Lord knows my driving lines will be even worse than my fashion.

I'm going to Laguna seca this June as a spectator so ill be able to talk to folks and check things out. Hopefully being prepared for July at buttonwillow.

Good call on the EZ-UP. I keep forgetting about the creature comforts when not in the car. Going to have to make another list. I don't have a trailer, or a towing vehicle, at this point so a folding chair, ice chest, canopy will have to do.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #21
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You will have a blast. I have a race this Saturday at MMP and when i'm not racing it's still fun. I have Canopy we set up with lots of folding chairs for my family and friends who go watch me race. Bbq for lunch and a cooler with lots of drinks.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaov2k View Post
Wow! Thanks for all that wonderful info, guys! Especially NPK for not flaming me and speaking openly about a the underwear subject. It really isn't that obvious of a topic, especially for a new novice, yet so important.

I might look silly out there and maybe get mocked, but at least ill be a safe fool. Lord knows my driving lines will be even worse than my fashion.

I'm going to Laguna seca this June as a spectator so ill be able to talk to folks and check things out. Hopefully being prepared for July at buttonwillow.

Good call on the EZ-UP. I keep forgetting about the creature comforts when not in the car. Going to have to make another list. I don't have a trailer, or a towing vehicle, at this point so a folding chair, ice chest, canopy will have to do.
Welcome :-)

The first time I wore my gear at the track, nobody said anything. The second time, I noticed more people wearing gear. I had a fire in my first year of tracking, so I've always erred on the side of caution.

Going as spectator? Get a pit pass. Talk to everyone you can, just dont ask suspension questions. Look at what people do, bring, etc. You can learn alot on how to setup your pit.

With regards what you can bring, a roof rack can hold alot of stuff. One of the groups I run with has a Porsche 911 driver who runs a custom seat & tires. The seat rides in the passenger seat. The tires ride is a custom roof rack. Most of us stop our morning prep when he shows up to watch him unpack...never gets old...like watching a clown car at the circus.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:57 PM   #23
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I went back to Simpson and exchanged the jacket with a single layer grey/black suit. Purchased a pair of gloves and shoes, full price, but the least inexpensive ones, $79 and $99, respectively, and a pair of socks. I still have to swing by rei for the silks. Otherwise, I think my personal safety gear is good for now.

Amazon has a 3-5week lead time on the EZ-UPs (WTF?) so I'm going to have to check Costco or Walmart. I plan to pull the backseat, and the trunk is already stripped. I'm slowly making room for track stuff. Perhaps I can avoid getting a roof rack if I free up enough interior space. Ill learn more after Laguna seca.

Thanks guys.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:34 PM   #24
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Don't stress too much. I did the same thing my first time and all that stress/anxiety went away halfway through my first corner...

You should/will have an instructor in your car the first time(s). Most places require first timers to have an instructor. The more instructors and seat time you get, the better off you'll be. I've gone to 6 track days now, with over 20 sessions, and I think I've run maybe 4 or 5 solo. Instructors can really take the edge off, so just focus on being excited and well rested/nourished for the day!
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:27 PM   #25
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You'll get all kinds of opinions on instructors. Just keep in mind, an instructor will help you get better faster. The more you have an instructor ride along, the less likely you'll be developing bad habits.
Even professional drivers have coaches to help them refine their driving.

Unlike asking for directions when you're lost, never be to ashamed to ask for help at the track.
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