Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday July 13, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2013, 01:41 PM   #151
WhatTurboLag?
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 243992
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Morton Grove, Illinois
Vehicle:
2006 WRX TR
WRB

Default

No sleeves????
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
WhatTurboLag? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 01:47 PM   #152
Extreme Turbo Systems
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 194655
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Vancouver, WA
Vehicle:
08 STI
White

Default

NO sleeves....Just the block guard.
Extreme Turbo Systems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 02:08 PM   #153
WhatTurboLag?
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 243992
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Morton Grove, Illinois
Vehicle:
2006 WRX TR
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Turbo Systems View Post
NO sleeves....Just the block guard.
Wow any reason why?


Any reason not to pin either?
WhatTurboLag? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #154
Extreme Turbo Systems
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 194655
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Vancouver, WA
Vehicle:
08 STI
White

Default

We think the stock sleeves will hold up fine. With the block guard there is no reason to pin it.
Extreme Turbo Systems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 02:47 PM   #155
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi Dom_3.5 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

Pinning is the poor man's block guard. A block guard is essentially just machining pieces and pressing them in to close the deck. The top of the cylinders is where the strengthening is needed to hold the combustion at high HP levels. The theory is that you don't need better sleeves, you just need reinforcement on the stock sleeves which is what this solution and the others like it provide. There are a lot of guys making big numbers on this type of solution.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #156
WhatTurboLag?
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 243992
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Morton Grove, Illinois
Vehicle:
2006 WRX TR
WRB

Default

Interesting. Would sleeves and pins/block guard be even better then?


I thought pins all the way down while a block guard like this was just on the top portion??
WhatTurboLag? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 03:41 PM   #157
Extreme Turbo Systems
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 194655
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Vancouver, WA
Vehicle:
08 STI
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
Pinning is the poor man's block guard. A block guard is essentially just machining pieces and pressing them in to close the deck. The top of the cylinders is where the strengthening is needed to hold the combustion at high HP levels. The theory is that you don't need better sleeves, you just need reinforcement on the stock sleeves which is what this solution and the others like it provide. There are a lot of guys making big numbers on this type of solution.


Correct. That about sums it up.
Extreme Turbo Systems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 03:48 PM   #158
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

I think pins actually weaken the stock sleeves. Yes the may eliminate some movement/ vibration but you cut into the sleeve to hold them in place creating a potential stress points. They typically are only at the top 1" or so of the cylinders.

The problem that people are finding with iron sleeves is they expand at a different rate than the aluminum block creating a differential between the case and the sleeve and then leaking head gaskets. Some call it dropping which may happen if they aren't pressed in correctly. It more likely that they are at different rates of expansion from the case creating the HG issues.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 03:51 PM   #159
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Turbo Systems View Post
I don't remember If you call them and talk to Bobby I am sure he can match any other closed deck block price or beat it.
Thanks Mike! I'll contact Bobby. I sure do like the looks of there's and the way they cover the case bolt holes. It looks like a better solution that Outfront's. Can you tell me how thick the inserts are approximately?
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 03:55 PM   #160
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

I finally received the universal 1/2" ARP head studs which will fit our blocks. <$8/ ea. plus nuts and T washers. I think these 1/2" head studs and the block guards will make a pretty bomber motor!
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 04:36 PM   #161
Extreme Turbo Systems
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 194655
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Vancouver, WA
Vehicle:
08 STI
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Thanks Mike! I'll contact Bobby. I sure do like the looks of there's and the way they cover the case bolt holes. It looks like a better solution that Outfront's. Can you tell me how thick the inserts are approximately?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
I finally received the universal 1/2" ARP head studs which will fit our blocks. <$8/ ea. plus nuts and T washers. I think these 1/2" head studs and the block guards will make a pretty bomber motor!
This is Robert . I don't remember how thick they are. I think they are about 1". They put a step in the block for the block guard to sit on. We used the 13mm P&L head studs in ours. The larger head studs aren't exactly easy to machine for but the end result is worth it.
Extreme Turbo Systems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 05:44 PM   #162
WhatTurboLag?
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 243992
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Morton Grove, Illinois
Vehicle:
2006 WRX TR
WRB

Default

Wow. 1 inch?


If that's the case, that would **** on pins. BUT how about a factory closed deck such as a ej22?


Sorry I am researching for a build in the near future.

Looking at the new class legal precision 6785 with a small turbine housing. It's a gt42 size compressor cover >
WhatTurboLag? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #163
Extreme Turbo Systems
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 194655
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Vancouver, WA
Vehicle:
08 STI
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
Wow. 1 inch?


If that's the case, that would **** on pins. BUT how about a factory closed deck such as a ej22?


Sorry I am researching for a build in the near future.

Looking at the new class legal precision 6785 with a small turbine housing. It's a gt42 size compressor cover >
Maybe not quite an inch. lol

Extreme Turbo Systems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 08:32 PM   #164
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Turbo Systems View Post
This is Robert . I don't remember how thick they are. I think they are about 1". They put a step in the block for the block guard to sit on. We used the 13mm P&L head studs in ours. The larger head studs aren't exactly easy to machine for but the end result is worth it.
No worries Robert! I knew it was either you or Mike!

1"? That's thick. When I was talking with Paul Szuba at PnL about their block guards he said that they made theirs about as thick as he thought the block could take and theirs are 3/4" thick. Either 3/4" or 1" would be great as that's the business end of the cylinder! The PnL 13mm studs, ARP2000 are super nice at $500 and so are the AMR 14mm studs, 8740 CM steel at $600+! They should be very nice for that money.

The studs pictured below are 1/2"/ 12.7mm, are 8740 CM steel and have a tensile strength of +200,000 psi and torque to 110 ft.lbs. but here's the kicker. They're <$8/ ea. I figure the nuts and T washers plus the studs might add up to $15 max., so that's maybe $180 for a set.

juanmedina found them and I did a bit more research on them and ordered a couple to inspect them. They look nice, robust and should work well for our motors. Here's the specs on them.

AR7.562-1LB. is:
  • 7.562" OAL, 8740 CM steel
  • 180,000-200,000psi TS
  • torques specs are 100-110ft.-lbs..
  • The threaded portions are:
  • block: 1/2"-13 x 1.25" long
  • head: 1/2"-20 x 1.25" long

Last edited by manitou; 10-24-2013 at 09:19 PM.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 02:55 PM   #165
jockeygolfs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 260868
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Worth, Florida
Vehicle:
2011 STI
White

Default

Edited

Last edited by jockeygolfs; 10-26-2013 at 04:00 PM.
jockeygolfs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 04:02 AM   #166
lee586
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 212926
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, Austrailia
Vehicle:
97 Wrx
Black

Default

lee586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 04:04 AM   #167
lee586
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 212926
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney, Austrailia
Vehicle:
97 Wrx
Black

Default

lee586 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #168
What v8
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 254718
Join Date: Aug 2010
Default

this looks great! looking forward to the results.
What v8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 09:51 PM   #169
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

So how much power is this thing making now?

God... I need to stop being cheap and get a good engine haha
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 10:00 PM   #170
Md05STI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 76974
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Vehicle:
2005 CGM STI
10.03 @ 135

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
So how much power is this thing making now? God... I need to stop being cheap and get a good engine haha
Why??? My cheap engine ran like a champ lol
Md05STI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 11:43 PM   #171
BLKSHEEP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 365835
Join Date: Aug 2013
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Vehicle:
2005 Evo 8
Black

Default

Pretty impressive build. Just read all 170 posts. Looks like I'll have to order some more parts from you guys with your proven street build. Like to see numbers when all said an done.
BLKSHEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #172
Extreme Turbo Systems
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 194655
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Vancouver, WA
Vehicle:
08 STI
White

Default

Sounds good. Let me know if you need anything. We started to turn it up on the dyno but it got cut short because one of the straps broke.
Extreme Turbo Systems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 08:20 PM   #173
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Md05STI View Post
Why??? My cheap engine ran like a champ lol
My engine is running fine but I cannot turn it up any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Turbo Systems View Post
Sounds good. Let me know if you need anything. We started to turn it up on the dyno but it got cut short because one of the straps broke.
nice!
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #174
Md05STI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 76974
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Vehicle:
2005 CGM STI
10.03 @ 135

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
My engine is running fine but I cannot turn it up any more
That's what everyone said about mine too! But it kept running stronger, until all the boost finally got to it lol
Md05STI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 10:22 PM   #175
shomspeed
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 166371
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: World Wide Web
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Turbo Systems View Post
They are factory STI blocks that they machine for a block guard. So they are stock bore (99.5mm). We got ours for stock size pistons.
I've seen that most that offer the closed deck option, or the of pinning the sleeves, require boring of the sleeves to get them back straight after the process. Are you saying that with VSR closed deck option there isn't any distortion of the sleeves that would require boring .25mm over?
shomspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.