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Old 06-13-2013, 04:16 AM   #1
Devy
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Default False knock?

Hey guys,

Logged my 2004 wrx stage 2 catless TBE on an open source tune and I am seeing some knock. I don't know if this is false knock or not. I also notice some fine learning knock which can't be good... Can anyone take a look and help me out?

Thanks

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:42 AM   #2
666stars
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Something def wrong, IAM is at 13. Was the car running better when it was first tuned
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:32 AM   #3
nmlittlebigman
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Looks like crap gas to me.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:29 AM   #4
wgr73
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Anytime your IAM drops, something isn't right. Your ecu isn't happy. I've seen FLKC just cruising, but you IAM is at 13 too which means something isn't correct. Can you post a learning view?
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:19 PM   #5
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Does the car ever see FBKC? I have seen alot of cars with false knock that just resort to using FLKC randomly to reduce timing. The fact that your IAM has dropped is concerning though...

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:07 PM   #6
nmlittlebigman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dux10 View Post
Does the car ever see FBKC?.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
He has one FBKC event in the first and the last log.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:29 PM   #7
nmlittlebigman
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According to Bill @ Cobb, knock resistance with Canadian fuel is not on par with what we have here:

https://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums...498#post671498
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:20 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input so far, and I've been using 94 octane from chevron for a 93 octane tune. Maybe I will see if i can adjust it for 91 octane and still use 94. Car pulls hard though, it doesn't feel like it's running bad or anything. if I reset the ecu, does it have the tendency to drop the IAM a bit until it learns and gets comfortable with the tune and then bring it back up to 16?
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:17 PM   #9
nmlittlebigman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devy View Post
Tif I reset the ecu, does it have the tendency to drop the IAM a bit until it learns and gets comfortable with the tune and then bring it back up to 16?
It depends on the initial value that your map uses. Some tuners and OTS tunes will set it lower for added safety. After a reflash the car is in rough correction mode. If it gets the all clear then it should learn its way up to 16 fairly rapidly. If you have a 91 octane map I'd try that (running the 94).

Edit: I am taking for granted that your car was pro tuned. Are you by chance tuning this car yourself? What other mods do you have e.g. intake, bcs/bov ?

Last edited by nmlittlebigman; 06-13-2013 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:30 PM   #10
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Only mods are what I have stated. Just tubo back catless and uppipe catless with a tune that was done by a local tuner via open source with tactrix cable. IAM was set at 16. I do know a little bit about tuning like what my values should be at but I don't know fully how to address this knock. I'm going to see if I can get a 91 tune soon. It just confuses me since there was no knock whatsoever on the first couple days of the tune. Then I log it about a week later and I am seeing knock and IAM dropping...
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:45 PM   #11
nmlittlebigman
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As long as you have'nt developed any mechanical issues involving fueling or something rattling like a loose heat shield then bad gas can cause what you are seeing. Maybe just try to take it easy for the rest of that tank avoiding boost. Once you fill up with better gas then your IAM would increase on it's own.
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:14 AM   #12
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Ok thanks. So I shouldn't try to adjust the tune at all? If I had to adjust the tune, I'd just pull timing in the areas of knock right?
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:05 AM   #13
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here is a new tune for 91. Tuner set intial IAM to 12, still hasnt gone up to 16 should I be worried? I took 5 logs... All look good with no counts of knock or anything except this one here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

I also see the boost spike up to 19.49! Why would this happen? Can I fix this at all? Is one count of feedback knock at -2.11 something to be concerned about and should I fix it?

thanks
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:15 AM   #14
nmlittlebigman
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FBKC in that log could have been noise from shifting. Talk to your tuner about your other questions.
Here's some good links on how it works:
http://www.romraider.com/RomRaider/H...ndKnockControl

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1840.html
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:27 AM   #15
wgr73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devy View Post
here is a new tune for 91. Tuner set intial IAM to 12, still hasnt gone up to 16 should I be worried? I took 5 logs... All look good with no counts of knock or anything except this one here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

I also see the boost spike up to 19.49! Why would this happen? Can I fix this at all? Is one count of feedback knock at -2.11 something to be concerned about and should I fix it?

thanks
If your tuner got rid of all of the knock and he was certain the tune was safe then I'd just have set the initial value at 16. I've noticed doing partial throttle pulls above 2500rpm (?) in the D maf range seems to jump the IAM up pretty fast. I can't remember the logic off the top of my head but there is a range that you can stay in to get your IAM up.

I would get rid of some of the things in your WOT log, like the A,B,C,D fuel trims, and EGT (watch your gauge for this one). Also log load, WGDC, and MafV instead of Maf g/sec. You can lookup your Maf g/sec with MafV if you need to.

Boost spikes could be from a number of things.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:55 AM   #16
nmlittlebigman
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Like wgr73 said you can make the ecu "learn" faster on the older cars.
See: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302047
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:54 PM   #17
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Maybe the reason your getting this knock is cuz of your boost creep? What is your target boost supposed to be at?
I want hitting target boost so i adjusted the wastegate arm on turbo 4 turns too tight. I reached those two extra psi i was missing but i started knock and my dam would drop from 16 to 12 at times. Went ahead and adjusted the arm 2 turns Looser, all good now. My target is 23 psi and i get to around 22 tops.. My Point is im not knocking nor is my dam dropping like it used to on WOT pulls.
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:04 PM   #18
Devy
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I'll try adjusting the waste gate actuator then and see if that helps. Thanks for all of the input guys!
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:09 AM   #19
Devy
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Well I only get the occasional feedback knock at -2.11 every once in a while and no fine learning. I guess this is ok now
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:52 AM   #20
nmlittlebigman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devy View Post
Well I only get the occasional feedback knock at -2.11 every once in a while and no fine learning. I guess this is ok now
What did your IAM settle in at?
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:32 AM   #21
Devy
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IAM is still at 12... But it's stayed at 12 and hasn't given me much knock at all
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