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Old 01-19-2005, 09:26 PM   #1
baileypicks24
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Default Track cars: Honda CRX/Civic vs. Mazda Miata

I decided that tracking the daily driven Scooby is taking its toll, and it'll be smarter in the long-run to invest in a cheap track car. Anywhooo...

I seem to have narrowed down my list of potential track cars to the older CRX/Civic (late 80s to early 90s) and the older Miata (early 90s).

Other than the obvious RWD advantage (I suppose this depends on personal preference), the Mazdas seem to have an "older" (old is good ) following. Parts seem to be more available on the Honda. What advantages/disadvantages do you guys know of, and what would be the more financially sound decision? Keep in mind I'm only 20, and hell no I won't wait until I get a job LOL

It will be used for track (mainly VIR, Summit point) and of course, autox!

So what do you guys think???

Thanks in advance



(Pics from sccapro.com and scca-milwaukee.org )
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:47 PM   #2
Burnall4
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Since I will be purchasing a ITA/s CRX in the future I will have to say CRX. The reason is because with little suspension mods a 80 hp CRX can handle not only like it is on rails but it makes the rails it rides on.It will out handle the Miata, as I have seen this in person at Summit Point and VIR.I have even seen one chase down an Porsche TT and pass it through the turns. The straights were another matter. I direct your attention to the ITS CRXs running in SCCA, NASA. As I do not own either I can only go on what is told to me, and the best drivers that I know all drive CRXs, and they wouldn't lie to me, nor do their results.

Gray

P.S. Go to Honda-Tech.com and the Racing section, look for Catch22 posts, he is a great driver, and he runs a CRX. He also started Honda-Challenge. At least I think he is still running his CRX. Hope this helps

P.P.S. Miata = $$$$$$$$ for parts like to get 10 more hp cost a couple thousand dollars, more than anything you can do to a CRX/civic.
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:49 PM   #3
baileypicks24
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Ah, great information. Verry appreciated thank you!
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Old 01-19-2005, 10:38 PM   #4
baileypicks24
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I can't find 'catch22'...but I'm definitely reading up on the Honda Challenge.

Would you guys reccomend going with a completely stock car? Raced before? Modded? Is it really a bad idea to buy a car that's already been prepped for the track?
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Old 01-19-2005, 10:47 PM   #5
Burnall4
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if you buy a car with RACE history, you can pick and chose, i am buying a fully built car personally, its cheaper that way.

When ever I do buy one I will just surf the forsale sections on the SCCA and NASSA boards and buy a winning or contending CRX.

Let me find all of his post, his name is Scott Giles, karl Shultz and him started it now its nationally known, and i would like to say i was an unoffical consultant. I kept Karl sane while trying to get it going.
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Old 01-19-2005, 10:47 PM   #6
WRX-ECE
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I don't know much about either except what people tell me, but: I don't think the old Miatas are $$$$$ to make trackable. One of the main reasons the SCCA runs Spec-Miata is because of the dollars/performance ratio and the availablilty of them. I can tell you that I see a heck of a lot more Miatas at Auto-X then I do CRXs.

Or you could buy a 2.2L coupe for cheap and race that...

Jeremy
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:29 PM   #7
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If you run in Spec Miata learn body work.
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:35 AM   #8
baileypicks24
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You know, after doing some research I'm beginning to lean towards starting out in a completely STOCK car in autocross, just to get to know the car. It's a totally different platform and one would be foolish to jump right onto the track without knowing the car.

I suppose I need to find out how competetive a stock Miata would run in it's class (E Stock if I'm not mistaken) vs. the older Civic (H Stock)...
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:43 AM   #9
Burnall4
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Quote:
I can tell you that I see a heck of a lot more Miatas at Auto-X then I do CRXs
Key word Autox. Road Race/Autox = Civic
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:35 AM   #10
turboICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileypicks24
one would be foolish to jump right onto the track without knowing the car.
Color me foolish the first time I drove my 240SX ITA/PS2/ST5 race ka was at my competition license evaluation followed by a sprint race. It depends on experience and comfort level. Budget wise taking a stock vehicle and eventually building it to spec for racing is much more expensive than getting a prepared car and learning it in that condition.

There is nothing so special about a prepped spec miata or HC/ITA CRX that you could not take it right onto the track if you are beyond the novice level in track days. I mean if the car is sorted all you are dealing with is a car with the proper safety equipment, much improved suspension but not much more than stock power.
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:46 PM   #11
dave bruener
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It is always easier and cheaper to race a car that has been built and raced by someone else. I've seen at least a dozen guys build cars thinking they were going to do it for less than what someone was selling a similar used car for and they always spent more building it. Always, everytime.
If you buy a built car from someone who has run it successfully, then you have a good starting point for set ups as well.
With that said, I have a '92 Prelude for sale. It can go to ITE, ITS or E Production in SCCA and it is good Honda Challenge car and maybe even USTCC with little work. This is a former Real Time car--the guys who have won umteen World Challenge Championships. $4000 :-)
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave bruener
It is always easier and cheaper to race a car that has been built and raced by someone else.
You're 100% right....in the long term.

I'm talking about the short term though. The initial investment of the actual vehicle is much cheaper for a completely stock car. Not to mention you can be competetive in autox in a stock class. Eventually building up to a all out track car. Yes, it will cost more money, but at a slower pace.

I guess that's what I'm thinking...anyways I'll update the thread in a few days when I buy the beast
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:47 PM   #13
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Miata is by far a superior vehicle on the racetrack.
While both are relatively cheap to run (and competitive in road racing classes), the miata will be a much more reliable vehicle and more fun to drive.

When you make the jump to wheel to wheel, the build costs for a Spec Miata are drastically lower than an ITA Crx, and the resale value much better as well.


ps- Scott Giles does not drive a CRX, he drives an old Civic hatchback in ITC (old as in 1.5L carb 4 speed)
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:16 PM   #14
turboICE
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The problem with SM is their persistent willingness to exercise "rubbing is racing" and "hard rubbing is hard racing" which puts a big dent in budgets.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileypicks24
You know, after doing some research I'm beginning to lean towards starting out in a completely STOCK car in autocross, just to get to know the car. It's a totally different platform and one would be foolish to jump right onto the track without knowing the car.

I suppose I need to find out how competetive a stock Miata would run in it's class (E Stock if I'm not mistaken) vs. the older Civic (H Stock)...
The miata's do great in E-stock. H stock is dominated by the base mini cooper right now. But a Civic/CRX si will do decently well, if your driving skills are up to par. I vote Miata.
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:50 PM   #16
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I vote Miata... as long as you fit inside. While I'm often one of the rare supporters (around here) of the idea that FWD cars can be fast and handle, the enjoyment of driving a RWD car hard cannot be overstressed.

Oh, I've seen some very fast civics on an autocross course.. but I've also seen a turboed miata take FTD.
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Old 01-21-2005, 10:49 PM   #17
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I think it really depends on where you think you're going with the car... My personal preference would be for the miata (i want a turbo'd miata track car soooo bad), but if are planning on running wheel-to-wheel I think Spec Miata and ITA are both great groups.. My brother just built his SM and it was fun and not too expensive, but it's a race car, things will break, and sheet metal may be crumpled...

One thing to consider is full-blown track cars rarely can be driven on the street (emissions, harness aren't legal in most places, etc) so that means getting a trailer and tow vehicle which is not a cheap endeavor... Even if you have a tow vehicle the trailer could cost as much as the CRX or miata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboICE
The problem with SM is their persistent willingness to exercise "rubbing is racing" and "hard rubbing is hard racing" which puts a big dent in budgets.
wuss - jk I agree.. weird how much they allow considering how much PR they push for it being a bargain racing league...
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Old 01-21-2005, 11:01 PM   #18
turboICE
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Well it is a bargain for the racers that moonlight in body work! I like the races but couldn't afford the body work - i'll stick with my ITA 240sx - I can get a shell and cage it for less than $2.5k so if the body damage is too high just swap shells can't do that with a miata.

Comes down to the budget. Seeing what the front running SM's spend I could run my STi in T2.








(For one race weekend.)
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Old 01-22-2005, 03:12 PM   #19
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I think either choice is a good one- but if I could only pick one- my vote is Miata. I have tracked and maintained both an integra and miata, so I speak from experience. The miata was much more of a blast to drive, rewarding and cheaper to maintain. One post alluded to the mega bucks to ad HP to a miata- and while there is truth in that (turbo kits or JRSC)- Horespower is not what a Miata is about. You can spend very little, and still have an amazing car for the track or autox.
You'll meet great people in both camps, but I have to say the Miata community really impressed me in terms of resources, events, and willingness to help.

Good luck making your decision.
My 99 Miata is still for sale if you are interested. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=553181 thread from the summer (needs to be updated)
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:34 AM   #20
attemptmischief
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i have a crx 91 si and love it it handles great and acelerates and is unbelievable i will not sell this car for nothing its my prized possesion curently looking for a another one just for the frame just incase a mis hap happens and the crx's are harder to find than a miata thats for sure and parts are getting rarer thats why there a lil more costly but so much fun to drive and i still drive mine on the street with a stage 3 6 puck clutch my girl friend teases me cuz ocasionally i kiss the steering wheel jokingly and only thing beat me so far is a bmw m5 ,,personal exsprience on my end drive both before u make a choice matter of preference i thing but it handles turns like a champ
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:52 AM   #21
Tim_
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Back from the crypt?

Did the other cars you were racing know you were racing them?
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #22
Jack
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If you think getting parts for a CRX is difficult or that they are rare, you are on crack.



redpepperracing.com for first gen CRX
g1teg is also worth being on since 1st gen integra stuff is the cheap way to upgrade. Rear disks, engines, trannys, etc. There are hasport and other swap mounts available. You just have to actually look around. Bigger torsion bars for the front are easily available. Good suspension (konis) are easily available.

2nd gen is run of the mill and every honda part ever made fits on them.

I ran the 87 Si for 5 years (it was an SCCA ITA car for 5 years before that) and recently had a 91 dx to teach my son how to drive a manual. I had a new 91 Si back in the day.

Rare? Not even.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:41 AM   #23
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this thread is from 2005 and the OP is banned
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:23 PM   #24
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banned or not, old or not the idea is still one worth discussing. i feel the same way about tracking my STi some times.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attemptmischief View Post
i have a crx 91 si and love it it handles great and acelerates and is unbelievable i will not sell this car for nothing its my prized possesion curently looking for a another one just for the frame just incase a mis hap happens and the crx's are harder to find than a miata thats for sure and parts are getting rarer thats why there a lil more costly but so much fun to drive and i still drive mine on the street with a stage 3 6 puck clutch my girl friend teases me cuz ocasionally i kiss the steering wheel jokingly and only thing beat me so far is a bmw m5 ,,personal exsprience on my end drive both before u make a choice matter of preference i thing but it handles turns like a champ
i really like how u post it is so great for addin to our noledge of theese car keep up the gud work god bless
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